Rising Interest Rates and the Housing Market: What Physicians Like You Need to Know Before Buying a Home with Richard Ricci

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Join us for an in-depth discussion on the current state of the market and how it’s affecting the housing industry. Our focus will be on the impact of rising interest rates and how it’s affecting the feasibility of buying a home.

We’ll share some real-life examples and delve into the numbers to provide you with a comprehensive understanding of the market.

We’ll have a special guest with us, Richard Ricci, a loan officer from Truist (formerly SunTrust Mortgage). Richard is a graduate of the University of Florida with a passion for mortgage lending and quality of service.

He specializes in Truist’s industry-leading Doctor Loan program which amounts to over 95% of his business. Richard has won many awards for production and service quality over the 16 years he has been with the bank. Most recently, in 2022, he was a Truist Performance Award winner for ranking in the top 1% of banking employees and a Truist Origination Performance Summit Award winner as a top producer in mortgage. He finished the year ranked #1 in the FL, AL, TX divisions in production. We want your participation!

Listen to the conversation as we discuss everything you need to know about buying a home in today’s dynamic market.

Don’t miss out on this informative and engaging episode with our expert panelist and special guest, Richard Ricci!


The opinions, statements, and viewpoints expressed by Richard Ricci do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Truist. Truist is not responsible for and does not endorse any views expressed other than their own.


Richard Ricci – Mortgage Loan Officer, NMLSR # 659699

Richard Ricci on LinkedIn

Contact Finance for Physicians

Finance for Physicians 

Full Episode Transcript:

Daniel: Rich, what’s up dude? 

Richard Ricci: How are you? 

Daniel: I am doing well. We were just catching up before we started. It’s been a while since I’ve seen you. It’s actually been since, when was that? Right In the middle of Covid. I think we talked about, 

Richard Ricci: I mean, it was, it was March or April of 2020. 

Daniel Wrenne: Yeah. Right in the thick of it.

Richard Ricci: Right in the thick of it. 

Daniel Wrenne: Yeah. When everybody was, I mean, it, that was kind of a scary time, 

Richard Ricci: right, right. Yeah. Right in the middle of quarantine and everything, so, 

Daniel: Yeah. 

Richard Ricci: A lot has changed.

Daniel: Yes, it has. It has. Well, I’m excited. We’re gonna, we’re gonna dig into mortgages and home buying and the market and talk a lot about what’s going on there.

Rich is a rockstar in the world of 


mortgage loan lending and works with Truist, which was SunTrust truist Bank and primarily works with physician loans and. He knows all there is to know about physician loans and has lots of experience working in that area. So we’re gonna dig into all that and I’m excited to kind of go through all that sort of stuff.

And a lot of stuff we were just talking about too has changed since Covid and as you all know, like interest rates have gotten crazy and they just have shot up really quickly. And so that’s a big factor. And then there’s banks that have collapsed and it’s just kind of a little bit of a weird market right now.

So, we’re gonna dig into all that stuff. If you’re listening in the live show, let us know if you have questions throw those out there and we’ll address those as we go. You know, any questions are welcome and we can dig into that. But maybe we can start out with the, just this current state of the market.

It’s Morgan. I think when we talked.

The average mortgage rate was probably like three and a half percent or something for a 30 year,

I’m guessing. 

Richard Ricci: I mean, it was lower because, 

Daniel: was it It was like three. 

Richard Ricci: Yeah, because I 

Daniel: I mean, 

Richard Ricci: it was, it was in the twos because we were doing investment property rates at three and a quarter, 3.5, 

Daniel: which is insanes, so like That’s crazy.

Primary residents 

Richard Ricci: were in the, in the twos when we talked last. 

Daniel: Yeah. That’s crazy. That must have been like the

Daniel W: the bottom,

Daniel: bottom. Yes. 

Daniel W: And so 

Daniel: a lot’s changed there. What’s the average 30 year mortgage rate right now? 

Richard Ricci: So we’re, it’s, it’s vacillates between the high sixes and mid sixes for a conventional rate.

And that’s pretty much started going up, you know, this year. And just to kind of back up to give you some, you know, 

Daniel: history of. 

Richard Ricci: Why we were so low before is once we, you know, in oh eight when we hit the great recession 

Daniel: we 

Richard Ricci: pumped a lot of stimulus into the market. And what controls interest rates are, is the bond market.

So the Fed pumped money into the bond market, bought up a bunch of, mortgage back mor mortgage back securities. And that artificially pushed interest rates way down to stimulate 

Daniel: the 

Richard Ricci: economy. 

Daniel: So fast forward, 

Richard Ricci: We hit c o v,


Richard Ricci: And things start to go the other way. We think we’re about to hit another collapse, but we don’t, because we go through another round of stimulus.

And that pushes rates even more low, you know, even lower. So that’s what got us into the twos. At that, you know, one point, and


last year is when the Fed started weaning off of that. So they stopped pumping money into the, into mortgage backed securities and started something called quantitative easing, which means they didn’t just turn off the faucet they slowed down.

And that gradual that gradual slowdown. Raised rates a little bit but nothing really crazy. Then we started hitting inflation time, 

Daniel: right? 

Richard Ricci: So a lot of people think that when the Fed raises interest rates, when the Fed raises the fund feds rate, which they’ve raised, you know, almost every meeting this year.

They think that is directly correlated to mortgage rates, but it’s not. The Fed funds rate is for home equity lines, it’s for credit cards, it’s for commercial loans. But

at the same time, we have inflation going way up. And inflation is the enemy of interest rates. So the higher inflation goes, the higher our interest rates go.

And that is what kind of pushed us. The combination of the fed’s actions and the inflation. You kind of pushed us up to this part, you know, this high level and a really short period of time. So now we’re like, you know, in the high sixties for conventional loans and each time the Fed looks at the inflation numbers, the way they, where they look at ’em is they look at it.

What the inflation number was last year in a particular month. And they compare it to what it is this year in that particular month. And if inflation was super high during that month back then, and it’s a little bit lower this month, our rates will get better, right? If it’s vice versa, if it was lower and it’s a little bit higher this year, then our interest rates get worse.

But what the Fed hasn’t been doing is looking at how the graph goes up and down. So last year in April, you know, it was low this year it was higher, so rates went way up and then they pumped more money into the, you know, they raised their funds rate. But in May,

for instance, it was lower last

year than it was in April of last year.

So this year it’s probably gonna be 

Daniel: I mean, it 

Richard Ricci: was high last year rather, so this year it’s probably gonna be a little lower. And a lot of the experts are thinking that we might get a little bit of a break in May. 

Daniel: From the increases. 

Richard Ricci: Yeah. 

Daniel: What’s the best 

Daniel W: metric 

or what’s the best, is it the 10 year 

Daniel: treasury is the 


Daniel W: to look at, to 

Daniel: kind of get a rough idea of what 

Daniel W: mortgage rate, 

Daniel: because they kind of, I know the Fed funds rate is not a good no 

Daniel W: direct indicator of mortgage rates, but is it the 10 year 

Daniel: treasury?


Richard Ricci: the 10 year treasury is there’s a whole bunch of different, you know, you can look at at the actual notes the 30 year notes and the 15 year notes and all that. But the 10 year treasury is a good indicator. It’s not exact, but as it goes up and down, it’s pretty, 

Daniel: it’s pretty good point. 

Richard Ricci: But the main thing that people are really worried about right now, of course, is buying power, right?

And the media is 

Really negative about, about buying power. And there is a reason for it because at the same time, our rates are going up. So is appreciation. And the reason houses are appreciating so fast, or they did last year anyway, is because there is no inventory. So when there’s no inventory, there’s no competition and rates go way up.

Not rates 

Daniel: price. Price. Yep. Supply demand. 

Richard Ricci: Yeah. So at the same time, we have increase in price and increase in


So the number you’ll hear thrown around by the media is that every 1% that an interest rate goes up, that decreases your buying power by 10%. So if you’re looking at, let’s just say, you know, we’re comparing 3% to 7%, you know, that’s 40% that, that decreases your buying power.

But what they’re not including, Is the raise of wages, you know, inflation, you know, the people are making more money on average. 

Daniel: Some,

Richard Ricci: Some,

yeah. But I mean, if you look at the data, 

Daniel: like, 

Richard Ricci: every, like we are 

Daniel W: The large 

Daniel: numbers. Yeah, yeah. Wages are, 

Richard Ricci: are going up. Even on, you know, middle class, like


Daniel: is 

Richard Ricci: some increase in


Daniel: So 

Richard Ricci: that cancels out some of that. Like, just looking at my 

Daniel: data 

Richard Ricci: I’m, I think it’s probably decreased by about 20% 

Daniel: binder. Just, 

Richard Ricci: just, yeah, just looking at what I was able to qualify

for people

and what I am 

Daniel: now. 

Richard Ricci: That, that’s, kind of what 

Daniel: I’m 

Yeah. And real quick, 

Richard Ricci: I gotta make a real quick disclaimer that I forgot to do in the beginning.

Daniel: goodness. 

Richard Ricci: I work for Tru 

Daniel: Tru. But these 

Richard Ricci: thoughts and ideas are my own. They’re not, you know, truist is not, 

Daniel: This is not advice. 

Richard Ricci: Yes, exactly. 

Daniel: This is for educational purposes only. Right. 

Daniel W: Consult 

Daniel: your advisors and everybody for advice. Yeah. Con 

Richard Ricci: consult. Daniel 

Daniel W: consult. 

Daniel: Yes. 

If you work with us, yeah. You don’t then don’t start working with us 

Daniel W: or 

Daniel: find your other advisor.

Daniel W: Yes. And 

Daniel: we’ll circle back to some scenarios too. Because really it depends on your situation. And the numbers can skew even 

more in 

certain situations. So, 

Daniel W: But yeah, so mortgage rates have gone way up on pretty much everything from like, whether it’s a 30 year 

Daniel: an arm 

Daniel W: or 15 year, pretty 

Daniel: much all the products, the rates 

Daniel W: have gone up a lot.


Daniel: not like a way around that. 

Daniel W: And 

the problem 

Daniel: with it is 

Daniel W: it’s like prices have not gone down. 

Daniel: Like theoretically, they potentially should because 

Daniel W: like 

Daniel: you were saying 

Daniel W: with the 

Daniel: buying power, 

Daniel W: in 

Daniel: theory, if buying power goes down, prices should theoretically 

Daniel W: go 

Daniel: down on houses, 

Daniel W: but they haven’t because the inventory’s so 

Daniel: so low.

So that’s kind of a weird situation. 

Daniel W: It’s like you’re paying the same 

Daniel: price 

Daniel W: as before, 

Daniel: but paying a way higher interest rate. Right. That just crunches you even more. 

Daniel W: So it’s kind of a 

Daniel: weird market. Is there any changes around like 

Daniel W: the arm versus 30 

Daniel: year versus 15 year 

Daniel W: and 


Daniel: the physician mortgage loan 

Daniel W: space?

Like what’s changed over the, I 

Daniel: know when we talked last, 

Daniel W: you had to put money down on some of these, like the banks got a little squirrely during Covid and we’re 

Daniel: like, ah, we’re not doing 0% anymore. Right, right, 

Richard Ricci: right, right. So right now that’s gone. We’re back to a hundred percent financing. And this varies from 

Daniel: bank 

Richard Ricci: to bank.

Just a little bit of color. Conventional loans are Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac loans. So the guidelines, the interest rates, et cetera, come from Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac. The VA it comes from the va. F h a comes from the Federal Housing Administration. 

Daniel: But 

Richard Ricci: these doctor 

Daniel: loans are 

Richard Ricci: what we call and the

industry portfolio loans.

Daniel: So we 

Richard Ricci: hold the money on our portfolio.

It’s our


Daniel: and the bank. The bank, 

Richard Ricci: yes. So we service it, but we also hold the money on a conventional loan. The money goes to Fannie Mae. In the 

end, even, even 

though it’s serviced, you know, by the bank. So because of that, there is more wiggle room and guidelines and in price.

So the cool thing right now, historically, doctor 

Daniel: loans,

Richard Ricci: at a

Daniel: a hundred percent financing 

Richard Ricci: used to have a slightly higher interest rate than a conventional loan, right? But when you put ’em side by side, you’re doing a a 5% down conventional loan. You’re doing a hundred percent doctor loan. You have 

Daniel: pay pmi.

Richard Ricci: With a conventional loan, you don’t with a

doctor loan.

So even if the rate was a little 

Daniel: little bit higher, 

Richard Ricci: it still made sense to do. But now since

interest rates

have gone up, the doctor loans have stayed lower. So my rates for doctor are about a percent lower than conventional loans. So I’m like in the 

Daniel: the low 

Richard Ricci: sixes or high 

Daniel: fives.

So it’s 

like put less down, lower interest rate. Yeah. Because people, 

Richard Ricci: ask me all the time, they’re like, well, what’s the downside? And I’m like, there isn’t one now. You know? There used 

Daniel: to be, used to be, 

Richard Ricci: yeah. There used to be like I could point to that, but now there’s nothing like there, there’s 

Daniel: no 

Richard Ricci: downside.

If you can do a hundred percent loan at

a percent lower

interest tell me 

Daniel: where 

Richard Ricci: is, you know, but we’ll do like a hundred percent financing up to a 

Daniel: million 

Richard Ricci: and then 5% down to 1.5 and then 10% down to 2 million. 

And then the other cool thing about the DR loan is you can close prior to your start date, so you can close up to 90 days prior to the contracted start date and still go off of the income for the future doc. 

Daniel: So normally you have to 

Daniel W: provide 

Daniel: like pay stubs or Yeah. Proof of income essentially. 

Daniel W: And with a typical loan, or conventional

Daniel: loan 

Richard Ricci: typical

loan, you’re, they’re gonna want, you’re like, there are some variations 

Daniel: this, 

Richard Ricci: a typical loan you 

Daniel: usually have to provide 

Richard Ricci: your first pay stub, so you gotta start your 

Daniel W: Yeah. 

Any other big changes that I didn’t 

Daniel: realize that about the rates being 

Daniel W: have 

Daniel: swung the other direction? Yeah, I 

Richard Ricci: mean, that, that



Daniel: biggest one. And 

Richard Ricci: I have that conversation with clients every single day 

Daniel: because 

Richard Ricci: they call me and they’re like, what? Like I was just got a quote for a conventional loan.

It was 7%

I’m like,



Daniel W: our arms 

Daniel: low. Are arms about the same rate as 15. Arms are pro, 

Richard Ricci: you know, they’re lower than fixed rates. The spread isn’t as much as it 

Daniel: was in the app. Yeah. 

Richard Ricci: Just because they don’t wanna but an arm right now really isn’t a terrible decision. Because most people are


gonna refinance pretty soon anyway. experts are predicting that

rate. Probably

this is for conventional loans go down to like fives by the end 

Daniel: of the year at some point. Yeah. So if that happens 

Richard Ricci: then, you know, there might be 

Daniel: a lot of people 

Richard Ricci: that refinance.

Daniel: Yeah.

arms are fixed for just for those that, that aren’t 

Daniel W: clear, like 

Daniel: for a certain period of time, and then they become variable interest rates. So yeah, 

lot of 

times the 

interest rate’s a little lower than fixed straight options. Right, right. But, 

Daniel W: Then, 

Daniel: you know, then they adjust trade off is, it goes variable.

Daniel W: So if rates go higher, I mean, at 

Daniel: end of the day, we don’t know for sure what rates, interest rates are gonna do in the future. Right. 

Richard Ricci: We have no idea. 

Daniel W: We like 

Daniel: Dak like we do and make predictions. Yeah. I mean, I’m watching the mar, 

Richard Ricci: I’m watching the market all day every day and I, you know, listen to updates all the time and I still like, nobody knows.

You know, like, and everybody’s been predicting that there’ll be a, you know, a housing, like for the past four years it’s been like we’re at a bubble. We’re about 

Daniel: to Recession’s coming. Yeah. Recession’s 

Richard Ricci: coming. Recession actually might be here right 

Daniel: now. I mean, it could be happening, but like Yes.

Could not be too, I mean, it’s for Rob, you know. 

Richard Ricci: Yeah. But as far as the housing bubble is concerned, the way inventory is, which is, you know, the issue you brought up. That, you know, the keeps the values from going down. That’s also the thing that’s gonna prevent housing Because there’s no chance that we, you know, we decline when we have this inventory issue.

Daniel: Cause those 

Richard Ricci: numbers are gonna keep, they’re, and they’ve shown that they’ve slowed down, you know, appreciation has, but it is, you know, still increasing. There’s no bubble or drastic drop like everybody’s been 

Daniel: predicting. Yeah.

Daniel W: Can

Daniel: you have two mortgages? Can you buy, can you have two physician loans through Truist? 

Richard Ricci: Not through Truist. So through 

Daniel: the 

Richard Ricci: Truist guideline is you can have one at a time, okay? 

there is an exception where if you have over 20%, like let’s say you bought one when 

Daniel: you’re a resident, it’s gone up 

Richard Ricci: and then it’s gone up a bunch. If you have 20% equity, then you can get a second one.

As an exception, as long as you can qualify and afford both of them. But 

Daniel: like

Richard Ricci: crossover between banks, there’s

no no rule that says you can’t have more than one. And there’s also no rule that says 

Daniel: can’t have multiple over 

Richard Ricci: your, 

Daniel: you know, 

Richard Ricci: your lifetime. Like a lot of people think that you can only get one and that’s not 

Daniel: true.

You’re right. Right, right. Yeah.

Daniel W: I, I

Daniel: work with a 

lot of 

people and we got many over the years. 

Daniel W: So we

got a 

Daniel: question from anonymous attendee 

Daniel W: and it’s funny 

Daniel: that we 

Daniel W: just we’re 

Daniel: talking about, this is 

Daniel W: right 

Daniel: we were talking about predicting future rates. They would like


if we could give our best estimate hand wave about

Daniel W: chances

Daniel: will get back to the old days

Daniel W: 10


Daniel: percent interest rates.

I don’t think 

Richard Ricci: think so.

Daniel: Impossible. 

Daniel W: Not 

Richard Ricci: No, 

Daniel: Never. Impossible. Because it’s happened before. Yeah. Yeah. 

Daniel W: Well, so in case, so this person obviously knows about the old days. A 

Daniel: lot of people don’t even know about the old days. Correct? Yeah, yeah. Like 

Richard Ricci: a lot of the people that call me,

Daniel: their

Richard Ricci: only knowledge about interest rates


since oh eight, where it’s


you know, four, three, 2%.

Right. So everyone’s like 6%. That’s awful. I’m Like, the majority of my career was, 

Daniel: you know, 

Richard Ricci: like in the, was at six something percent. You know, like, it’s not like 

Daniel: probably when you started it was 

Daniel W: six to 

Daniel: 7%, right? Like yeah, 

Richard Ricci: for sure. Yeah. So, I mean, it’s not like right now we are not in an abnormal, you know, time.

It’s just we have to figure out that it’s the new normal. 

Daniel W: I wonder what 

Daniel: would have to happen for it to get into the 

Daniel W: 10% range. I 

Daniel: think if inflation, if the inflation numbers keep staying steady 

Daniel W: at the rate, or 

Daniel: maybe even going a little higher, For whatever reason, and the Fed keeps raising their rates 

Daniel W: that 

Daniel: drive rates higher.

Yeah. To the 10%. That’s the scenario, I think short term, yeah. 

Richard Ricci: we, if inflation doesn’t get inflation is the thing, like 

Daniel: the inflation 

Richard Ricci: is the key to all of it. So if what the Fed has been doing curbs inflation, it’s not gonna 

Daniel: go to 

Richard Ricci: 10%. And also if we hit another recession, then rates are, they’re gonna have to pump money on the, the 

Daniel W: it’ll go 

Daniel: go down, 


Richard Ricci: and we’ll have 

Daniel: have lower rates.

Richard Ricci: I don’t think it’s likely, but

who knows,

Daniel: you know, like, yeah. Those are the two outcomes I 


is like, they overcorrection they would, you know, 

Daniel W: The 

Daniel: government intervention is driving a lot of this. So it’s like 

either they 

overcorrect in terms of 

Daniel W: raising the rate too 

Daniel: high, too fast, 

Daniel W: which puts 

Daniel: us in a rece session, which probably ends up in really low interest rates in the next few years.

On the other hand, if they. The opposite happens. Like they don’t act, they don’t realize how bad inflation really is, and it’s not changing it or 

Daniel W: continuing and then they have

to keep

Daniel: phrasing it. And then that’s the scenario where the 10% plus rates happen. Yes. And I mean, I think those are both possibilities.

I think they’re like

Daniel W: low

on both 

Daniel: ends potentially. think we’re much closer 

Richard Ricci: to the Fed pushing us into a recession. 

Daniel: I would agree. 

Daniel W: But 

Daniel: it’s hard to say. I’ve made 

Daniel W: so 

Daniel: many predictions that have been wrong over there.

Daniel W: so,

Daniel: I’m not a great fortune teller,


Daniel W: anyway what about all 

Daniel: the bank 

collapses and 

all that scary stuff going on with like, 

Daniel W: I mean, should 

Daniel: I be concerned about, especially if I’m buying a house and, you know, I’m saving up money for a down payment or I have, 

Daniel W: or 

Daniel: even just like which 

Daniel W: bank I choose, 

Daniel: like how important is it to have to be cons considering bank financial position when I’m doing all this stuff?

Richard Ricci: I don’t like, I think a lot of that 


Daniel: because of the 

Richard Ricci: specific banks. So just to kind of, do you want me to give you some color on like what led to the Silicone Valley Bank 

Daniel W: Yeah, I mean, 

Daniel: I mean, I think that would be interesting.

So, so 

Richard Ricci: basically the way that banks work is when you deposit money with a 

Daniel: bank, 

Richard Ricci: They’re not just gonna let the money sit 

Daniel: there.

Richard Ricci: You know, they need to make money. So they take your money and they invest it 

Daniel: Your cash. 

Richard Ricci: Yes. Yes. So any money that you know, you have held at the bank, they’re investing and they typically don’t invest it in risky stuff. You know, they’re putting it in bonds or mortgage backed security, you know, bonds.

And those are, you know, pretty safe investments. So Silicon Valley Bank is was, I don’t know. I think they’re 

Daniel: still going. 

Richard Ricci: Is they, they were a bank that specialized in like venture capitalists and startups and tech and like all this stuff. And during covid, like the, That just blew up like that sector.

And they became the cool go-to bank for all that. So their deposits tripled? Like almost overnight, like in 2020. So what they did was they took, you know, they 

Daniel: all this money 

Richard Ricci: and 

Daniel: they 

Richard Ricci: put it into bonds, which were paying like 1.5% at 

Daniel: time. Oh. 

Richard Ricci: And at the

time that was good because


Daniel: you 

Richard Ricci: remember on a savings account, 

Daniel: get like nothing 

Richard Ricci: point 0.1% 

Daniel: something on the best one.


Richard Ricci: So, fast forward I also should mention that they didn’t have a risk officer for a long period 

Daniel: time. Also, also one of their executives was 

Daniel W: a prior executive at Lehman 

Daniel: Brothers, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So this, they had a few. Warnings.

Richard Ricci: Yeah, there’s

some big time warnings, but essentially they started getting into the position when when the Fed raised the rates the interest rates on these bonds started going up, right?

So they have these 1.5% bonds, and then all of a


bonds are trading elsewhere for three, 3%, 3.6%. 

Daniel: So 

Richard Ricci: if they try, so when they, they ran into some trouble and they needed some money, nobody wants to buy a 1.5% bond. So the bank is usually counting on, okay, we’ll put it in this, this bond, and if we have pro problems, we’ll sell ’em, right?

But nobody wanted to sell it, so they wound up, and some, you know, going through some liquidity issues. So they, they sold like a ton of these bonds at 


Richard Ricci: big haircut, big loss. And then at the same time, there were some influencers, you know, that got a got a, got

wind of


Daniel: information Oh my gosh.

Richard Ricci: and

kind of tweeted it out there. And then that started what they call a bank run. So 

Daniel: everyone, 

the old, 

Richard Ricci: I gotta get my money out right now, if that bank run didn’t happen, they would’ve probably been fine. Like even if they lost money on the bond sales, they would’ve been fine. But they got to the point where they didn’t have enough money, pay back all the 

Daniel: who were, then they had to make more sales and more losses.

Yes. And then they hit a point. 

Richard Ricci: And then they hit a point 

Daniel: and then 

Richard Ricci: the Fed had to come in and essentially this time it wasn’t taxpayers dollars that billed ’em out. it was other so a bunch of the bigger banks, you know, loaned them money to kind of pull ’em out of the weeds. 

But them, you know, the 

Daniel: Signature Bank and 

Richard Ricci: Silver Gate, I think one of them was in crypto.

You know, like it they’re different situations than the 

Daniel: normal bank. 

Richard Ricci: I’m not saying that this couldn’t 

Daniel: happen 

Richard Ricci: to another bank because in this connected world we’re in this, like, the fact that a bank run could happen over a seven day period and just put a bank out of business is kind of scary.

Daniel W: Well, social media 

Daniel: pretty powerful. 


Richard Ricci: Very powerful. 

Daniel: But it spreads. 

Richard Ricci: But the, your


you know, bank and these, you know, larger banks out there, I’m not, you know, I’m not worried about it. It’s 

Daniel: kind 

Richard Ricci: of like 

Daniel: one 

off. Yeah. Okay. Well so let’s get into the home purchasing decision. So, 

Daniel W: I’d 

Daniel: love to talk a little bit about like the buy versus 

Daniel W: rent 

Daniel: situation.


Daniel W: And 

Daniel: we can talk about the, how much you can afford scenario as well. Cuz that’s, 

Daniel W: both 

Daniel: of these I think 

Daniel W: have changed quite a bit 

Daniel: over time. Yeah. 

Daniel W: So buy versus 

Daniel: rent 

Daniel W: I think 


renting kind of gets a bad 

Daniel: rap 

Daniel W: and it’s

Daniel: underappreciated

Daniel W: and 

Daniel: I think 

Daniel W: in certain

circumstances maybe 

Daniel: we could paint the picture of like a scenario where we would both 

Daniel W: agree 



Daniel: like a, I mean like the 

Daniel W: classic rent scenario is like, you have no idea what 

Daniel: future looks like. 

Daniel W: Lots 

Daniel: of uncertainty. New area, 

Daniel W: like finances 

Daniel: are 

Daniel W: you’re unsure about things 

Richard Ricci: yeah. 

Daniel W: You don’t know what, 

Daniel: maybe you’re new into 

Daniel W: practice in a new area of the 

Daniel: country and you don’t ha you’re, especially if 

Daniel W: maybe you’re single and you don’t have any family 

Daniel: there.

Right, right. 

Daniel W: And you’ve never 

Daniel: lived in the city before and 

Daniel W: And you 

Daniel: don’t have money for a down 

Daniel W: payment. So there’s all 

Daniel: this like, risk potential if 

Daniel W: you were to 

Daniel: buy and cuz with, so renting is nice in the way that 

Daniel W: it is very, very flexible. Like low commitment. Low maintenance. Like, 

Daniel: you don’t have to 

Daniel W: even, I mean, if you have a good deal, you 

Daniel: don’t even have to like, fix things.

Like Right. You don’t, I mean maybe you have to plunge a toilet, 

Daniel W: but 

Daniel: like, you don’t have to, you don’t have to like fix the broken stuff. And those were the

Richard Ricci: the days, man,

Daniel W: I mean 

Daniel: there’s

Daniel W: a lot 

Daniel: a lot of appeal 

to renting. 

Richard Ricci: so, listen, I’m like, in my job, I’m supposed to say that renting is evil. 

Daniel: You know, 

Richard Ricci: renting is the worst thing you could do 

Daniel: ever 

Richard Ricci: your 

Daniel: your life.

Richard Ricci: But, you know, I, I mean, obviously I think that there is 

Daniel: huge benefit, 

Richard Ricci: like if you compare the two, there’s a huge benefit to owning. But depending upon the situation, like you said, if you aren’t ready to buy, 

Daniel: don’t, 

Richard Ricci: you know, like 

Daniel: when doubt Yeah. 

Richard Ricci: It’s not something that you should do just because you think you should, you know?

Daniel: If you’re, 

Richard Ricci: if you’re not entrenched in a city and, or you’re young and you don’t you, all the things you said, you know, those are all legitimate reasons to l rent, and I think young people should rent. You know, before they buy because

There’s a

Daniel: a growing up to do.

Richard Ricci: It’s a, it’s the same thing with everything.



You can’t just throw yourself into owning a house. There’s a lot to deal with. 

Daniel W: Right, right. 

Daniel: We had a question i, 

Daniel W: I overlooked here. Backtrack into 

Daniel: the primary residence and conventional loan and physician loan and that 

Daniel W: sort of 

Daniel: thing. And 

Daniel W: the 

Daniel: question is, 

Daniel W: Can I still get a physician loan for a new primary residence while keeping the current property and loan as 

Daniel: a rental property?


Richard Ricci: So if the loan is with truist, our rule would be you have to have at least 20% equity on that property to get another one through us. Okay. If it’s with somebody else or 

Daniel: with us 

Richard Ricci: during that under those circumstances, 

Daniel: you just 

Richard Ricci: need to be able to qualify for both. And a lot of people think that.


the fact that they’re planning on renting it 

Daniel: it out.

Richard Ricci: be

able to 

Daniel: count rental 

Richard Ricci: income to offset that mortgage. And that’s not the case. If

I’m gonna count rental income, you need to have a history of having rentals and, you know, show it on your tax returns and So as long as you qualify, like for instance, if you’re a resident and you bought a house for 200 grand and you’re about to start your attending job and you wanna level up, buy a $500,000 house and you wanna keep that one as a rental and you’re making, you know, good money and your debt, to income ratio is low, no problem.

Yeah, you can definitely, 

Daniel: Can, you 

Daniel W: you buy a rental 

Daniel: property with a physician loan? No. There might be a bank, there 

Richard Ricci: a bank out there that does them. I, I, 

Daniel: I dunno what happens when you buy a primary residence 

Daniel W: as under a 

Daniel: physician loan? And then it magically becomes a rental property within a month or two. 

Richard Ricci: That’s fraud, 

Daniel: bro. That’s fraud. Yeah, 

Richard Ricci: that’s fraud. Like if they get 

Daniel: caught, I mean like if you’re telling the 

Daniel W: truth and it’s your 

Daniel: primary residence, 

Daniel W: that’s kind 

Daniel: of what I’m like, if you’ve lived there a year and then it becomes a rental house, 

Richard Ricci: that’s fine. Like things change. Like if you, if you bought the house, 

Daniel: you legitimately 

Richard Ricci: moved in and then a year later you got relocated or got a job in a different city and needed to, you know, move.


Daniel: that’s 

Richard Ricci: okay. like life happens. You can’t force somebody to live in a house, but if they’re lying then that’s a completely 

Daniel: Yeah. So tell the 

Daniel W: the truth always. For 

Daniel: sure. Yeah, that’s important 

Richard Ricci: for sure. 

Daniel: Isn’t there something in the contracts that 

Daniel W: that says 

Daniel: like, 

Daniel W: it 

needs to 

Daniel: your primary 

resonance indefinitely. 

I don’t know. 

Richard Ricci: I don’t know. how the

Daniel: don’t know. All the mortgage reads. I 

Richard Ricci: mean, the main thing that, that they require on primary residences is you’re supposed to

move in within 60 days. 

Daniel: Okay. 

Richard Ricci: So, so that, that is to give you time to do renovations or whatever, but 

Daniel: they don’t want 

Richard Ricci: you like, moving in next year, 

Daniel: you 



Daniel W: So 

Daniel: renting 

Daniel W: has its benefits, but I 

Daniel: am 

Daniel W: like, all 

Daniel: that being said about renting, I think, 

Daniel W: you know, the lean for most 

Daniel: people listening is that 

Daniel W: eventually 

Daniel: you should buy and, you know, once you’re, it’s kinda like when you’re getting settled. Once you’re settled is the time to buy and Yeah. Because long periods of time, 

Daniel W: it’s just a lot lower cost and it’s your home and you get to own 

Daniel: it, and you get to make it your own and, 

You can 

Daniel W: start to build some 

Daniel: wealth in it.


Daniel W: I mean, like longer term 

Daniel: for sure, 

Daniel W: buying is the 

Daniel: ideal 

Daniel W: way to 

Daniel: go. 

Daniel W: You just 

Daniel: have to be, I’ve seen some sticky situations happen with.

Daniel W: buying

a little 

too soon. 

Daniel: Yeah. 

Daniel W: Typically as with a physician 


Daniel: you can 

Daniel W: meander, 

Daniel: manage through those sticky situations. 

Daniel W: But 

Daniel: I think a better question maybe is, so like, let’s 

say you’ve 

Daniel W: kind of gotten to that point of like, it’s time

to buy

or maybe you’re upgrading to an a nicer 

Daniel: home.

Daniel W: I’d 

Daniel: it if we 

Daniel W: kinda 

explore like, what’s the 

Daniel: the right amount to be budgeting for on a house. Maybe we could start with like, the bank’s cap. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, and 

Richard Ricci: real quick, I’ll just go back to the rent versus own thing. So right now, a 

Daniel: people

Richard Ricci: are

saying, Hey, I’m gonna rent 

Daniel: until, 

Richard Ricci: I, you know,

rates go down or, or prices go 

Daniel: down.


Richard Ricci: bad part about that is rent is also going up, right? So if you are continually, 

Daniel: paying higher 

Richard Ricci: and higher amounts of rent

even if you could have, you know, even if the interest rates and stuff

are higher right

now, if

you were to

buy something right now, you can always refinance, right?

Like, the average person only keeps a mortgage for five years. So,

so there’s

a great chance that you’re gonna refinance outta that higher rate and be in a

much better

situation than if you would’ve rented for a certain amount of time. 

Daniel W: I think with renting to like there’s some other caveats 

Daniel: that are important. 

Got it. Some other important things about the rent

Daniel W: decision.

I have seen some really 

strange situations lately, the 

Daniel: past few years, where the rent rates are 

Daniel W: strangely low for the 

Daniel: price of the 


Daniel W: I think 

Daniel: it’s especially 

common in like these high 

Daniel W: inflation or 

Daniel: where property values have appreciated really fast.

Daniel W:

Daniel: think the rent rates have just not kept pace quite as fast and like 

Daniel W: tradi or 

Daniel: historically, like rent rates take longer to inflate 

than real 

estate prices, but you’re starting to see rent rates go up now. 

Daniel W: And then 

Daniel: the other weird thing with renting is like some of these areas like that have a really high property tax rates.

Daniel W: like

Illinois, I think 

Daniel: the worst as far as property tax rates that I’ve ever seen. Maybe 

Daniel W: Texas has some bad areas, new Jersey’s a 

Daniel: bad 

Daniel W: state for property 

Daniel: property tax rates that can like skew the equation a little bit. Like making, buying less appealing? 

Daniel W: Potentially Now in theory, like they’re 

Daniel: gonna just.

Daniel W: Pass 

Daniel: that cost right on through when you rent. Right. But it’s worth looking at all that stuff too. Absolutely. So what’s the most 

Daniel W:

Daniel: get a loan for if, 

Daniel W: if 

Daniel: I wanna, 

Richard Ricci: so, when somebody asks me that question, like, 

Daniel: because they always 

Richard Ricci: wanna know like, what is my max? Like, 

Daniel W: is that the 

Daniel: that the first question you normally get?

Richard Ricci: Not the first, but like, when people are getting pre-approved, that’s what they want to know. They want to know what’s the max I can qualify for. I mean, not everybody, like, some people are budget 

Daniel W: They 

Daniel: better not be our clients. Just kidding. No, not your clients. 

Richard Ricci: Your clients 

Daniel: never say 

Richard Ricci: but when they when they ask that question, mine, mine is, well, you know, what’s more important is what you’re comfortable paying, 

Daniel: you 


Richard Ricci: And that’s different for everybody. Like

Daniel: it’s important that 

Richard Ricci: you

Are, you know enough about your finances to know what that number is, and I’m not the one, I’m not the one that’s gonna tell you what that number is. I 

Daniel: I can, 

Richard Ricci: like, I can find out what your max 

Daniel: amount 

Richard Ricci: is, but that’s doing, you know, favors if I’m trying to get you to do something that might not

be in your

best interest or might cause stress You know, later on in


Daniel: your life. And 

Richard Ricci: have enough stress,

they don’t need

more because of their 

Daniel: mortgage, 

Daniel W: Yeah.

Well, let’s 

Daniel: just for funsies, what’s the max? 

Richard Ricci: So the maximum, like 

Daniel W: if I’m making 

Daniel: 300,000, 

I have no debt. 

Richard Ricci: 300,000, no debt. 

Daniel W: No. 

Daniel: Outside, because they have to take 

Daniel W: consideration your student loans and other 

Daniel: debt payments, but like to simplify things, 

Daniel W: let’s just assume 

Daniel: I have no debt. 

Richard Ricci: I mean, you’re, you’re, the sky’s the limit. Daniel 

Daniel W: guys, the living,

Daniel: you tell me what you

Daniel W: need.

Richard Ricci: wait

300,000 with no debt, you could pretty much choose. The way that the bank looks at it is 

Daniel: We, I mean, could I get a $2 million house? Yeah. Probably if we, with a $300,000 income. 

Richard Ricci: Yeah. If you have no debt, 

The max maximum income that you need is, or the debt to income ratio is 43%.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. So 

Richard Ricci: that’s the max. 

Daniel: Yeah. So 

Richard Ricci: you, if you take whatever your monthly income is, times 0.43, that’ll tell you like the maximum you could pay per month. But that also include, Debt because there, there’s usually no doctor that has no debt. You know? So you gotta factor in car loans you gotta 

Daniel: factor in.

Credit cards you 

Richard Ricci: gotta factor in, you know, anything 

Daniel: you have 

Richard Ricci: a monthly payment on is gonna subtract from that. 

Daniel: Yeah. 

Daniel W: The problem 

Daniel: with 


situation, I’m just thinking about the numbers in my head. 

Daniel W: If 

Daniel: I’m making 300,000

Daniel W: and

Daniel: home pay 

Daniel W: and paying 

Daniel: that kind of house, 

Daniel W: I imagine like

Daniel: if you, that 

Daniel W: a $2 million house, like the 

Daniel: mortgage 

Daniel W: itself is not 


Daniel: cost 

this, but like I 

Daniel W: think the all in cost 

is gonna 

be in like the 10,000 a month maybe range.

Daniel: Roughly maybe, maybe 10 to 14,000 a month, 

Daniel W: Range depending 

Daniel: on like what interest rate we use and what tax rates we use and that kind of thing. Yeah. So that like 10 to 14,000 a month, $2 million house, that’s probably pushing like. 

Daniel W: leaving 

Daniel: like 4,000 a

Daniel W: a month,

maybe three 

Daniel: to 

7,000 a month 

Daniel W: after the house.

So in other 

Daniel: words, 

Daniel W: you have three to 7,000 a 

Daniel: month 

Daniel W: to spend on everything 

Daniel: else, including saving for your future. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, you can make, 

Daniel W: do, 

like, you could 

Daniel: probably afford it. And I think that’s my point in bringing this up is I think that’s what the bank is gonna look at. They wanna make 

Daniel W: sure 

Daniel: you’re able to make the payment and they don’t have the 

Daniel W: time to go 

Daniel: through your financial situation or that’s not their job really to go through your fin financial situation.

Yeah. They’re just 

Daniel W: looking 

Daniel: at what you’re gonna be able 


afford, you know, 

Daniel W: assuming that’s 

Daniel: all you have. And that’s really, that’s what House pore is, I think in my definition is Yeah. 

Richard Ricci: for sure. And, and it might not be 2 million, it might be like 1.5 or something like 

Daniel: A lot. 

Richard Ricci: Yeah, it’s a lot. And, but it doesn’t need, 

Daniel: you don’t 

Richard Ricci: need that.

You know, 

Daniel: I. 

Daniel W: You 

Daniel: may want that, you may 

Richard Ricci: want that, 

Daniel: but you 

know, I mean, and there’s high cost living areas and that kind of thing, 

Richard Ricci: but I can’t tell people, you know, it has to be their decision. I mean, I can,

Daniel: I can, 

Richard Ricci: you know, say that all I want, but I still have people that are like, no, I want, 

Daniel: I want 

Richard Ricci: much 

Daniel: can.

You’re not the boss. Yeah, 

Richard Ricci: exactly. 

Daniel: Yeah. What’s what’s also 

Daniel W: interesting to me about the, 

how much can you 

Daniel: afford question is, 

Daniel W:

Daniel: lot of people have like rules 

Daniel W: thumb they 


Daniel: about, and 

Daniel W: that’s, 

I mean, 

Daniel: it’s okay to have a rule of thumb. It can be good in some cases, but like, they haven’t really changed their 

rules of thumb 

Daniel W: as like some of 

Daniel: these huge things, 

like the interest rates for example, 

Daniel W: have a massive 

Daniel: effect on

Daniel W: what you

Daniel: can afford.

Daniel W: But like, we’re not really taking that into consideration necessarily. Or, I mean, the 

Daniel: question is, are you 

Daniel W: that 

Daniel: into consideration? If you’re considering buying the 

Daniel W: fact 

Daniel: that it’s a massively different. 

Daniel W: Cost breakdown. I was looking 

Daniel: the numbers for the 

Daniel W: million 


Daniel: earlier. And if it’s like, if I had a 10,000 a

Daniel W: a month


Daniel: all 

Daniel W: in house costs, 

it wouldn’t, at 

Daniel: a 3% interest rate, I could afford $2 million

Daniel W: house. 10,000

Daniel: a month, all in.

Daniel W: But 

Daniel: it was 7%, it’d have to be 1.3 million. Right. So it’s like $700,000 

Daniel W: massive just 


Daniel: the


went up.

Richard Ricci: Yeah.

Yeah. So I mean, you can’t, you can’t look at it from a cost point of view. You have to look at it from a monthly, not like a, not a purchase price point of view. You have to look at it 

Daniel: fr from 

Richard Ricci: a monthly cost point of view.

Daniel: Mm-hmm. Then figure out, I mean, that’s why I asked that question. What is, what is your number? And then I can work backwards and figure out where they should be. 

Richard Ricci: You know, depending upon what the interest rate is, that could be different. But you need to look at it from a monthly payment point of view, not a purchase price point of view.

once you 

know what your monthly payment is, then you can look at the purchase prices and see what’s in that, you know, what’s in that range and if those will suit your needs or not. 

Daniel W: Yeah. I think what it comes down,

to is

Having a 

Daniel: financial plan, which is what we do every day. That’s like our day job in our world 

Daniel W: helping 



Daniel W: plan.


Daniel: all a financial plan is,

Daniel W: like

Daniel: plan for your money. So like 

Daniel W: how much is coming in, where’s it going, what’s most important to you? So, you know, what 

Daniel: happens with the house decision is a 

Daniel W: lot 

of times 

Daniel: are 


Daniel W: I want to travel. Family’s important. I wanna retire soon. 

Daniel: A S A P

Daniel W: p preferably and 

Daniel: I want the $2 million.

Yeah. It’s like, no, you can’t do all that. Yeah. So then it’s like, okay, well let’s prioritize stuff. 

Daniel W: And it’s 

Daniel: okay family’s most important, then traveling, then maybe 

Daniel W: retiring 

Daniel: at a reasonable age, 

Daniel W: and 

Daniel: then maybe we find out that the house is maybe fourth on the list 

Daniel W: or something. 

Daniel: it’s like what 

Daniel W: A lot of times the missing 

Daniel: exercise people 

Daniel W: fail to do when they don’t have 

Daniel: a financial plan.

Daniel W: Is 

Daniel: often they don’t 

Daniel W: think through 

Daniel: it like that. They 

Daniel W: get emotionally 

Daniel: tied up in the decision of the house and they forget those really important other priorities and they don’t like carve that money out. That’s why they say save first, spend the rest. 

Daniel W: It’s 

Daniel: like you gotta like carve out the 

Daniel W: long-term 

Daniel: savings.

You gotta carve out the money to travel. 

Daniel W: You 

Daniel: gotta carve out all that like important stuff first and then see what’s 

Daniel W: like left 

Daniel: over after like 

Daniel W: eating and lifestyle 

Daniel: and that kind of thing. And that’s how you back into the house number. That’s like the ideal way to do it is you kind of 

Daniel W: back 

Daniel: in to the 


Yes. Unless 

Daniel W: there’s, I 

Daniel: I’m 

Daniel W: sure 

Daniel: there’s some people 

Daniel W: maybe listening that are like, 

Daniel: actually, the house 

Daniel W: is 

Daniel: absolute most important to me. Like, 

Daniel W: and that’s 

Daniel: all I care about. 

Richard Ricci: Yeah. If that’s the case, then that’s a different, you 

Daniel: know, story. 

Richard Ricci: For sure. 

Daniel W: In 

that case, it’s 

Daniel: like, no, rich, like, show 


the max. I 

Richard Ricci: mean, it, everybody has different priorities, but what you said was knowing your financial plan, like that’s the whole thing. Because that, that way you can set your priorities and figure out what is most important. But if you don’t know your numbers, if you don’t know, like, I mean, you need to know what everything is gonna cost.

Utilities, you know? internet cable, like you need to know what that groceries, you need to know what those, that whole package is 

Daniel: gonna 

Richard Ricci: be like. And I will say this, like any of the people that come to me from you, they always. Have a plan and And

a lot of

Daniel: lot of times 

Richard Ricci: They were like, Hey, I want my, I want Daniel or my financial planner to look at my stuff.

You know, I want them to give me, you know, their opinion. And to me, like some mortgage guys don’t like it when there’s a financial planner 

Daniel: dictating 

Richard Ricci: things, but I love it, man. Like, because 

Daniel: I, 

Richard Ricci: They’re coming into it 

Daniel: knowing, 

Richard Ricci: you know, what they should know and with somebody who has their best interests 

Daniel W: Yeah. 

So if you 

Daniel: work with us and we don’t, and you don’t feel confident in those numbers, we’re just 

let us 

know and we can help you 

Daniel W: crunch those numbers, especially 

Daniel: if you’re approaching a decision around this. and if you’re a DIYer 

Daniel W: and you don’t 

Daniel: a plan this is just like a reminder or incentive, I guess.

Like you want to For sure. Do that before you, I guess really the time to do it is to have it, have a 

Daniel W: plan before you set your budget, 

Daniel: because. 

Daniel W: You know, that’s the hard question. It’s 

Daniel: like, how much are you gonna spend? And you definitely don’t wanna start 

Daniel W: The temptation 

Daniel: is to look at houses before you have a budget.


Richard Ricci: Yeah, that’s a problem. And 

Daniel: I, and that, I get 

Richard Ricci: that all the time where people fall in love with the house and then I’ve already made an offer and it was 

Daniel: accepted. Oh. You know, and 

Richard Ricci: then I get, then I get the application. I’m like, you don’t qualify for that. Like, 

Daniel W: oh, 

Daniel: and you always will. I mean, 

Daniel W: if you look 

Daniel: at a million dollar house versus $2 million, 

Daniel W: mean, the 

Daniel: nicer, the more expensive the house, it’s nicer.

Daniel W: Like, 

Daniel: you’re gonna like it. Yes. Yes. You’re going to want

Richard Ricci: want that house.

Daniel: Yeah. It’s not, it’s not. But you know, just having that plan too, it kind of keeps your head level when you’re 

Daniel W: getting into 

Daniel: that emotional, 

Daniel W: Decision making. 

Daniel: Absolutely. So, 

Daniel W: Other 

Daniel: than that, like, 

Daniel W: having a 


Daniel: is important, 

but let’s say you got the budget and you are getting into the decision making phase, 

Daniel W: What I 

Daniel: know credit’s important 

Daniel W: in terms of like 


the best 



Daniel: is the idea what credit score do you have to have to get like

the best

terms and everything? 


Richard Ricci: usually, and this will vary from bank to bank too, but usually seven 40 is the magic number. Like we’ll get the best interest rate if you have over seven 40. 

Daniel: Yeah, yeah. 

Richard Ricci: There are different tiers in our program.

Like if you have, you need

a seven 20 to

be able to do a hundred percent financing. If you’re between seven hundred and six ninety nine, you gotta do 5% down. If you’re between six 80 and 6 99, 

You’re 10% 

Daniel W: Does the right go 

Daniel: up?

Richard Ricci: Yeah.

Yeah, the rate goes up, but there’s also, it’s kind of offset because.

There’s a difference in the rate if you put money down. So a hundred percent financing, like for instance today it was like 6% 5% down is a 10th off of that, and then 10% down is a 10th off of that. 

Daniel: Yeah. 


got a 

question. I think 

Daniel W: Hue, 

Daniel: I apologize if I’m mispronouncing your name says no extra cookie for 

Daniel W: credit 

Daniel: above 800.

No congrats on credit above 800 

Richard Ricci: I mean, that’s amazing. Yeah, it’s amazing. The other thing I would like to point out about credit is people don’t realize a lot of times that what you see at home is not what we see. So when you’re pulling your credit, you, it’s Credit Karma or any of those credit bureaus.

You have a, you know, a credit monitoring plan with your bank. Those numbers are going to be lower than what I see. And the reason for that is every, there are so many different scoring models. So what you’re looking at at home is like the credit card model. But there’s also a car loan model 

And a mortgage model and, and you know, 

Daniel: ev 

Richard Ricci: unsecured loan model.

So they all have different ways they look at scores and you can’t really find the mortgage model at home. So the majority of the scores that people see at home are, vastly different than what I see. One like tip that I’ll share is

my fico.com has.

Daniel: If 

Richard Ricci: you google my ico.com 

Daniel: mortgage 

Richard Ricci: scoring model, you can 

Daniel: can find, 

Richard Ricci: A

way to, to get those scores that the bank will see.

The mortgage 

Daniel: mortgage bank. 

Richard Ricci: Just a word of warning. I think they make you sign up for like a 30 day, you know, 30 day 


Daniel: free trial. Yeah. And they’ll 

Richard Ricci: charge you if you don’t cancel it. So make sure to cancel 

Daniel W: put it on your 

Daniel: calendar. 

Richard Ricci: Yeah. But a lot of 

Daniel: of times 

Richard Ricci: I’ll pull somebody’s credit and they’ll 

Daniel: be like, 

Richard Ricci: oh my God, this is way, way lower than what I saw.

And then I’ll explain it to ’em and tell ’em what they need to do to get their scores up and have ’em go look at their mortgage scores

on my FCO before they come back to me so that I’m not, you know, repoing credit 

Daniel: too much. How often do you see physicians with below the seven 

Daniel W: 40?

I guess that’s the 

Richard Ricci: I mean, a lot.

it’s probably less than the rest of

the population in

my opinion. Like, I don’t know. 

Daniel: But I,

Richard Ricci: especially residents, or younger doctors who don’t, haven’t established a lot of credit yet. 

Daniel: That’s 

Richard Ricci: the thing that I see the most 

Daniel: is like

Richard Ricci: doctors coming right

out of 

Daniel: medical 

Richard Ricci: school, going into residency.

They’ll have nothing in their name 

Daniel: because 

Richard Ricci: mom and dad, you know, paid for everything. And 

Daniel: that’s something that’s 

Richard Ricci: advice that I would give is just make sure that you have. Three trade lines, three accounts, like credit cards, car loans, unsecured loans, 

Daniel W: some dead. 

Richard Ricci: We wanna see three of those.

And I’m not saying 

Daniel: like, 

Richard Ricci: get some debt and charge it all the way up and be in the hole. 

Daniel: Be responsible with the debt. Yeah. 

Richard Ricci: Use it for paying gas and pay it off but establish your own credit so that you’re not, because I have a lot of

residents that come

to me and they have no trade lines. They might have a good credit score, but I need to see that they have three trade lines like that they’ve been paying on for 12 months.

If they don’t, I can build non-traditional trade lines through like cell phone bill or utilities. But a lot of times those are in dad’s or mom’s 

Daniel: name too. 

Richard Ricci: So if I don’t have any of that, then I gotta say, Hey go work on it and come back later. So that’s something that I would recommend is, you know, establishing credit early.

Daniel W: Yeah, 

Daniel: it’s worth. Under understanding what your credit is. I think, you know, sounds like the number is sometimes difficult to get, 

Daniel W: like and converting it between 

Daniel: your score and that score or whatever. Yeah, yeah. But there’s all, there’s some easy things you can do to 

Daniel W: increase your credit.

Like, I have, 


people have 

trouble with like the debt ratio. Like they say they just 

Daniel: one credit card and they use it for everything. And like the balance 

on it is like 

Daniel W: high, but they 

pay it 

Daniel: off every month. But like, it looks like 

Daniel W: it’s 90% utilized or something like 

Daniel: that, that, which 

Daniel W: hurts their credit score.

But it’s like kind of dumb that it does that, but that’s just part of the formula thing. 

Daniel: Right. 

Daniel W: But you can easily, like either increase the credit limit


pay it 

Daniel: off faster or whatever. Right? Right. 

Richard Ricci: So what people don’t realize is that the credit the creditor reports to the credit bureau once a month.

So if 

American Express reports 

Daniel: the credit bureau 

Richard Ricci: on the 15th, because that’s when they’re, you know, the payment is due, they usually report on the same day that the payment’s due. And y 

Daniel: it’s, 

Richard Ricci: your balance is up there. When they report it, you pay it off the next day. Well, it’s not gonna show that it’s paid off for another 30 days.

And, you know, it’s gonna show that it’s way charged up, like you said. 

So it’s best to keep those numbers below 30% of the limit. That’s kind of the rule of thumb. 

Daniel W: When’s the 

Daniel: best time 

Daniel W: for people 

Daniel: to be reaching 

Daniel W: out to, like, 

Daniel: lenders, 

Richard Ricci: like during the month 

Daniel W: in 

Daniel: relation to the 

Daniel W: time that they’re gonna buy, like 30 days before they 

Daniel: buy?

60 days before they buy,


yeah, before they 

Richard Ricci: buy. 

Daniel: So a 

Richard Ricci: preapproval, a preapproval is good for like 120 days. So like your credit report is only good for 120 days. But what I tell people is just come to me before you start looking, before you start falling 

Daniel W: before you make 

Daniel: an offer.

For sure. Yes. Before, 

Richard Ricci: yeah.


j you know, it only takes us a couple days to do a pre-approval. 

Daniel: but 

Richard Ricci: if you fall in love with the house and you need it yesterday, and then, you know, we gotta put you to the top of the list and then, you know, maybe it’s not an easy pre-approval and then it just turns into a, you know, fire drill.

But yeah, I mean, 

Daniel: really 

Richard Ricci: whenever.

you are


to start

looking in earnest, you know, that’s when I get pre-approved,

You know,

just get pre-approved and then, then, then you’re off to the races. 

Daniel W: So get 

Daniel: fi, 

Daniel W: have a financial plan, then talk to 

Daniel: lender, talk 

to Rich. How often do people like sh how often are people shopping rates?


do you get 

Daniel W: get

that a 


Daniel: with 

the physician? Are they 

normally just like, you’re my guy? It’s 

Richard Ricci: a little of both. You know, I have, I get a lot of referral business

from, you know, realtors and

I’m a preferred lender for a couple builders. Like, usually when I get something from them, they’re not shopping me, you know, but I get a lot of

business from other

sources where they’re getting tons and 

Daniel: tons of quotes, you know?


Richard Ricci: Or they, you know, they read that they needed 

Daniel: get 

Richard Ricci: three quotes and that’s what they’re gonna do, and there’s nothing wrong with that. One thing I would recommend, 

Daniel: When you’re shopping, 

Richard Ricci: you know, for a mortgage is that you find out two things. You find out what their interest rate is, of course.

Like that’s

the first thing. Everyone knows

that. But the second is what their lender fees are. Because that

can change 

Daniel: immensely. 

Richard Ricci: If somebody has way higher fees and that’s why they have a lower rate. Like that’s not comparing 

Daniel: Apple. Right? 

Richard Ricci: So, so lender fees are the ti the part of the closing cost that goes directly to the bank.

One of those is the origination fee. So you may have heard the term points, that’s like one point is 1% origination fee. And you really wanna know that, cause that can add up quick, especially on your $2 million loan. 

Daniel: So 

Richard Ricci: you wanna know if they charge points. Typically in my quotes, I’m not charging any points.

The only time I charge points are is if somebody wants to buy down the rate pay you to get a lower rate. And then the other lender fees are like what the bank charges on every loan. Like we have a processing fee is what 

Daniel: we call 

Richard Ricci: it. Appraisal fee. Credit report 

Daniel: fee. Yeah. There’s a bunch of them.

Tax service fee. So, and they should break it down.

Richard Ricci: Yeah. So

Daniel: And you should be able to ask for

Daniel W: too. Like a lot of,


Daniel: it with a 

lot of 

Daniel W: people. 

Daniel: They, the classic is they’re like talking to three, they heard that you ought to talk to

Daniel W: lenders and they go


one and they’re 

Daniel: they’re like, Hey 


Gimme some pricing.

And they’re like, 

Daniel W: six percentage che. 

Daniel: che, 

Daniel W: and then that’s all that the 

Daniel: says or whatever the communication, yeah. Yeah. And then the other one,

Daniel W: like

Daniel: 6% and a thousand closing in the email. 

Daniel W: And 


Daniel: the third one sends the full cost breakdown, which is more in line with what you’re talking about. And then they, they send it to us and they’re like, 

Daniel W: And maybe 

Daniel: the full cost breakdown 

Daniel W: is 

Daniel: six and a half percent, which is higher than the other two.

Daniel W: And

they’re like, well, I 

Daniel: think I should go with the 6% interest rate

Daniel W: because

it’s a lower rate. 

Daniel: But the problem is like, 

Daniel W: we 

Daniel: have no idea what the first two,

right. like

you have to have the full breakdown to know what you’re even looking at. And I would not even 

Daniel W: go further with someone until 

Daniel: I saw that full breakdown just to, yeah.

I mean, that’s good. Even if you’re gonna use one lender, it’s just good 

Daniel W: practice 

Daniel: to 

like look at 

the full 

Richard Ricci: Yeah. You, I mean, you should know what your costs are. But also with the full breakdown, you need to discern. What the lender fees are from the rest

of it,

Because the city and state taxes, the escrows, The title fees, those are gonna wind up being exactly the same no matter who you go with. 

Daniel W: Well, they 

Daniel: they should be.

Richard Ricci: They, well, they



Daniel: but they will eventually. But 

Richard Ricci: what the person estimates upfront may not be. Right. So I run into this a lot because I over disclose. I want, you know, I want the person to go to closing and pay less than what they thought, what So when I put all of the fees on there the way they’re supposed to be,

And then

the other guy doesn’t, you know, like, he like really low balls all or forgets to put a title fee on there or something. Even though my, you know, 

Daniel: Len, my 

Richard Ricci: lender costs are lower, his overall costs look lower. But they’re not, because in the end those fees are gonna be exactly the same no matter what.

The only fees that are gonna change are gonna be the lender fees. 

Daniel W: Yeah. 


Daniel: That’s confusing. To look at. We’ve looked 

Daniel W: at 

Daniel: a lot, but, this is 

all good stuff. 

Daniel W:

Daniel: think we could 

go on 

and on. I know we’re 

Daniel W: close 

to time, so 

Daniel: I wanted 

Daniel W: to kind of start to 

Daniel: wrap 

up and 

and talk about some follow up 

Daniel W: actions to think about.

Daniel: First of all, I’ve already thrown it out there, like 

Daniel W: our team is 

Daniel: always happy to help with financial planning, 

Daniel W: the financial planning aspect, 

Daniel: which I think is important, and establishing that plan. You know, especially if you work with us. For 

Daniel W: sure, keep us in the loop. If you’re 

Daniel: not working with us, we’re happy 

Daniel W: to do 

Daniel: like a 30 minute 

Daniel W: call 

Daniel: to talk 

Daniel W: about like, pressing questions or look at like a loan breakdown for you if you want.

Daniel: Like, we can do stuff like that in that 

Daniel W: 30 

Daniel: minute intro call, which is no cost. So make 

Daniel W: sure 

Daniel: in, in 

Daniel W: look into that, 

Daniel: or if you’re doing it yourself, like, you know, 

Daniel W: have that 

Daniel: plan in place. And then Rich is a great resource. 

Daniel W: What’s 

Daniel: awesome about Rich 

Daniel W: is he’s 

Daniel: already 

Daniel W: Said 

Daniel: this himself, but I’ll say it 

Daniel W: too, to reinforce that 

Daniel: like he’s very Objective even.

I mean, of course he has incentive to recommend certain

Daniel W: things to


Daniel: but like, he’s a pretty objective guy. Like he’s gonna tell you if he thinks that you should, 

Daniel W: you know, be renting or if you’re spending too much or whatnot. So he’s a 

Daniel: great 

Daniel W: resource to reach 

Daniel: out to. Rich, can you throw out some, like, ways 

Daniel W: for people 

Daniel: to get in touch with you and a little bit more about how to find you?

Richard Ricci: Yeah, Richard 

dot Richie, R I c c I. At truist.com? Yes. My name is Rich Richie. If I’ve heard Richie Rich maybe once or twice in my lifetime. 

And then you’re gonna put my contact info in 

Daniel: Yeah. 

Richard Ricci: Description, I assume. That’s my email address. My website is 

Daniel: www.truist.com/richard.richie.

Richard Ricci: So there’s kind of how you can, you know, get in 

Daniel: Awesome. 

Daniel W: Well, 

Daniel: it’s been fun. And 

Daniel W: I’m gonna put, I’ll throw in a link to this 

Daniel: all in calculator that we have. That’s really helpful to kind of look at cost breakdowns as well. Any other resources or 

Daniel W: suggestions 

you can 


Daniel: of, rich, that we didn’t hit on?

Eh, no. I mean, talk to a professional is my, yeah. 

Daniel W: And talk early and 

Daniel: rich is not aggressive either. 

Like he’s not, 

that’s partly why we, I mean, I like Rich as a,

Daniel W: friend, but

Daniel: You know, I professionally appreciate his non-aggressive approach. Like, some of these lenders get hyper aggressive and I do not like


So I mean, I’ve, 

Richard Ricci: I’ve told you, you’ve sent me other, you know, another estimate and I’m, 

Daniel: know, 

Richard Ricci: I’ve told you their deal’s better than mine, you 

Daniel: know?


Richard Ricci: I don’t like, and, and this is not bragging, but 


Richard Ricci: do enough business where I don’t, I don’t need to scratch and


claw for it, 

Daniel: you know? 

Richard Ricci: And I don’t need to, to coerce people into doing business with me. 

it’s a luxury to have 

Daniel: Yeah. It’s

a good

spot to be in.

Richard Ricci: Yeah,

Daniel W: Well, it’s been fun, 

Daniel: rich. I appreciate you coming on and, 

Daniel W: keep 

Daniel: the good work. 

Richard Ricci: You too, my 

Daniel: friend. 

Richard Ricci: Good, good to talk to you under better circumstances than 

Daniel: 2020. Yeah, that was a,

Daniel W: we made

Daniel: the best of it. Yeah, we did. 

Richard Ricci: We did.