Entrepreneurship is a liberating concept.
Outside of the promises of wealth and prestige, being an entrepreneur or cultivating the QUALITIES of an entrepreneur is a blueprint on how to solve problems better and solve better problems.
Our guest today is the perfect example of that.
Ernesto Gutierrez, MD is a practicing physician/entrepreneur with an extensive track record of success behind his back:
- Grew a stem cell therapy practice to 7+ figures in revenue.
- Helped develop regenerative medicine treatment protocols for conditions such as autism, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s, and other neurodegenerative disorders.
- Started his own online business by risking it all… and made it.
Ernesto has successfully made the transition from a practicing researcher and physician to an online entrepreneur. A feat that we’re quite curious to discuss on today’s episode!
And more importantly… we’d like to discuss how you, the listener, can do the same.
Full Episode Transcript:
Daniel Wrenne: What’s up guys? As I’m recording this, it’s really close to the end of the year and start of the new year, and so probably by the time you’re hearing this, it’ll already be the beginning of the new year.
Daniel Wrenne: So happy new Year. It’s such a great time of year to be talking about planning and goal setting and how to make this year even better than last.
Daniel Wrenne: And so we’re gonna be talking about getting this year started right and goal setting today.
Daniel Wrenne: If you’re like me, I’m sure you’ve had your fair share of failed goal attempts. Just look at the gym attendance. If you’ve ever been in the gym in January, it’s super crowded. Everybody starts the year out with that motivation to lose a certain number of pounds.
Daniel Wrenne: But we get into February and at some point everybody disappear. And somehow we’ve all dropped the ball and lost the motivation. Or maybe a few of you are able to keep it going and maintain that. And maybe even hit the goals. But once you hit that goal, you oftentimes really don’t feel any differently and maybe it didn’t even improve your life at all.
Daniel Wrenne: And so you’re left searching like, what’s next? And maybe even questioning like what was the point of the goal in the first place? So obviously something is not working in the way that we’re setting these goals and these New Year’s resolutions. If you resonate with any of this, you’re definitely gonna enjoy my conversation with our guest today.
Daniel Wrenne: She’s been through all of that herself and is really open about sharing her experiences of the ups and downs. So my guest today is a part-time practicing Emergency Room physician. She’s a wife and a mom of five kiddos and two dogs. So she’s very busy. But on top of that, she’s the founder of the Physician Mom’s Group, which is a very large Facebook group. And is a high performance coach for high earning women, especially those in the male dominated fields.
Daniel Wrenne: And so through all of this, on top of it all, been able to advocate for racial and gender equality. And so I think all of us have that itch inside from time to time like our guests did to make a change or that desire to become a better version of ourselves.
Daniel Wrenne: But that pool of the status quo is so strong and it’s just really difficult to change course.
Daniel Wrenne: And so most of us end up doing nothing or at least reverting back to that status quo. So our guest today is different. She’s figured out how to change the course of her life and is a living example of how impactful this can be. She’s also been a very generous person with sharing this knowledge with others, and even teaching and coaching others on how to make this change themselves.
Daniel Wrenne: She’s someone that’s always exploring her life, purpose and values, and always asking those really important and sometimes difficult why questions and peeling back those layers on her decisions. And really viewing these decisions she makes from day-to-day from this lens of what’s most important to her. And how they’re gonna impact her life. And ultimately help her become the best version of herself.
Daniel Wrenne: So when you get to this place, that’s when you really start to see positive results in your life. And the goals you set in the new year actually start to make your life noticeably better. So our guest today is Dr. Holla Sare. This conversation was loaded up with all sorts of great nuggets, but a few of them that come to mind, we talk about her experience growing up with the scarcity mindset and how it was so restrictive and paralyzing with her decision making.
Daniel Wrenne: We talk about how she was able to change that mindset and how impactful it was. We also talk about how her experience of getting rich was really not a big change on her life. And it simply made her more of the person she already was, which for her situation wasn’t actually really a great thing.
Daniel Wrenne: And so the real game changer was when she was able to begin to explore her values and her purpose and figure out how to use money as a tool to fulfill them. Which ultimately for her required changing course. And that’s where the true wealth lies, I think for a lot of us. So we also talk about how she was able to make this transition and what it looked like for her. And the importance of investing in yourself along the way.
Daniel Wrenne: We also talk about things like the benefits of therapy and coaching and how impactful they’ve been for her. She also shares a really unique way of viewing decisions from this lens of more than just the financial ROI or return on investment. Because there’s all kinds of reasons to make decisions beyond just those that make you richer.
Daniel Wrenne: So I really hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I did, and so let’s jump into it without further ado.
Daniel Wrenne: Holla thanks for joining me today.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I’m so excited to be here.
Daniel Wrenne: Yeah, it’s a crazy time of year. My house has been super hectic over the holidays as we’re recording it is December 29th. And I have three kids.
Daniel Wrenne: So you have five kids and two dogs. Has the holidays been crazy for you guys?
Dr. Hala Sabry: It’s been fun. I think, every day is it has the potential of being crazy if I wanna qualify it like that. But yeah, honestly, it’s been really super fun. My in-laws also are here. They’re here maybe half the year they stay with us. And so it’s been really helpful. And I have a really great relationship with my in-laws, so it’s actually, I love having a full house. Growing up, I only had one brother, and it sucked because, I love my brother if he’s listening, I love you so much.
Dr. Hala Sabry: You’re the most awesome brother in the whole world. But, when we fought, I had no one else to play with. And my kids like, they fight all day. That’s just what they do and so they’ll come down, “Oh, so and so was mad at me.” I’m like, “You have four other choices. Go, let’s do it.”
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so it’s really fun. It’s always a little hustle and bustle, yeah. So I love it. I love the hecticness.
Daniel Wrenne: What are the ages?
Dr. Hala Sabry: My eldest is nine, and then I have twins that are eight, and then I have twins that are four.
Daniel Wrenne: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you got some different dynamics. We went ice skating yesterday to keep our kids busy.
Daniel Wrenne: Oh my goodness. Exciting.
Dr. Hala Sabry: That would stress me out.
Daniel Wrenne: That’s what I said. It was me and my father-in-law, or my dad and myself. And my three boys and my wife did not go, which was for the better because she would’ve been hypers stressed out.
Dr. Hala Sabry: It’s an ER doctor’s nightmare.
Daniel Wrenne: Right? Yes, but it was fun.
Daniel Wrenne: But we’re just trying to stay busy with activities and that kind of thing. I was looking and checking out in preparation for this, your social media. And you have this really beautiful picture of your I think it was your older twins and younger twins, right after you had your younger twins. And it was, I think it was such a good post because it’s the classic almost like perfect family picture. And I look at the picture and I’m like, “Man, that’s an amazing setup and I’m such a happy moment and everything’s perfect almost.”
Daniel Wrenne: But if you read the post, there’s a lot more going on behind the scenes. And so I’d love it if you could talk about like that moment. Because it was clearly on the surface looked pretty solid but maybe talk through some of the behind the scenes that you had going on cuz it, there’s a lot more.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Yeah. And I think, I post a lot about the realities of my life. I think, people read my bio or maybe listen to the intro here and they’re like, “Oh my gosh, I could never be her. Or who the hell she is? Who is she? Who the hell does she think she is, kind of thing.” And I think social media, that’s where I grew my nonclinical aspect of my career, it’s on social media. In a day and age where social media was really focused on perfection, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: It’s like the Instagram era. Everything was like perfect pictures. And honestly like twins too, I don’t mean to come off really like direct, but sometimes people use them as like accessories, right? It’s ” Oh, they’re so cute.” They dress ’em up and things like that.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I remember when my kids this couple years ago, I remember taking the picture and not really taking the picture thinking I’d ever posted on social media, but just knowing the picture was so important to me for the future, no matter how bad I felt at that moment.
Dr. Hala Sabry: But man, I was overwhelmed. I was overwhelmed in that moment. I was always feeling judged. I think I just cared so much about making sure everybody was happy. I think in that actual post I was talking about people pleasing. And I just remember taking pictures and my husband, it’s an overwhelming time.
Dr. Hala Sabry: ~I mean, ~The babies were like, what, three weeks old? And then we had another set of twins that were three and a half. And then a child that was five. And we’re at this house and I remember one of them threw up and it was just so much going on. And I just remember thinking, “Gosh, like I really want my pictures and I really want that for me. But I also want, my husband to be happy. And I also don’t want the photographer to be upset. And I want the kids to have a good experience.”
Dr. Hala Sabry: And almost like sacrificing what I wanted was like this, like picture of this memory that I’ll never get back. I’ll never be able to get my kids back to three weeks old, to take those pictures.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And this is really around the time that I was finding coaching and I just knew that I was miserable and I was like very overwhelmed. And I knew that one of the reasons why I wanted to actually do your podcast is that you talk a lot about money. And I used to think money was my biggest problem.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I used to think that if I made more money, or if I had six months of savings or, expense savings or if I had x number of dollars in investments, like my life would be better. And I’m just, I wanted to come on your podcast to tell you guys like that’s not true. Like money obviously is a great tool and it can leverage great power and things for you, but it won’t change what you think about yourself or how you view the world.
Dr. Hala Sabry: It will not. It will just make you more of who you are. So if you are more of the person that’s trying to please other people, trying to get approval on social media through lights, loves, and comments on posts, or you’re scared of disappointing people or you think you can act, think, you think that you actually have the power of making people sad or mad or upset, whatever it may be, like, you will just have a lot more money and be more of that person.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I just didn’t wanna be that person. I just didn’t wanna be that person anymore. That just kept people pleasing and being worried about not being good enough. Money wasn’t gonna change that for me. But I did use my money to change those thoughts. I hired a coach and now I’m here to talk about, really how your life can look like
Daniel Wrenne: I love the way you described that and I haven’t ever really thought of it exactly like that. Like how money makes you more of who you already are, but that’s very true, I think especially without intentionality and it’s just gonna propel you further in the direction you’re already on and that can be for good or for bad.
Daniel Wrenne: But you took it as a change opportunity. And also in the post you did described, how your mother had instilled some pretty valuable lessons, which I’m curious. I’m assuming that was a big factor as well, some of those lessons she had taught you?
Daniel Wrenne: I know towards the later stages of her life.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Yeah. My mom, for people that dunno my story, my mom she passed away almost five years ago from breast cancer.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And my mom was a stay-at-home mom. My dad was a doctor. And I learned a lot of lessons. But I’m gonna, I’m gonna tell you guys two major lessons I learned from her. And one is when I was 10 years. And I think in every marriage, I don’t care what kind of marriage you have, like it is normal to fight.
Dr. Hala Sabry: If you’re not fighting something, something is wrong. And yeah, that’s how people communicate, right? They have disagreements and then they come to an understanding and they grow. And there was a fight that my parents were having. And of course when you’re 10 years old, like you don’t really know how to gauge, you know what that really means.
Dr. Hala Sabry: But this was a big fight. Whatever it was, it was a huge fight. And my mom was so mad that she was like, I’m gonna go get a job. And I was like, oh man, that is like major, right? And so she puts on this really awesome outfit and she goes to a temp agency. Now you have to remember, this is the eighties, or around the eighties,~ late,~ late eighties. She goes to a temp agency.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And in our whole family and like little community, she was the fastest typer, like in the whole white world. And she was so fast and she had these like awesome always done nails. And it was always click the clack, and we could just hear her typing and it was just like, so beautiful.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And she goes, and that was her best asset. That’s what she was depending on, okay. And so she goes and she does like the test and I guess she didn’t type fast enough. I mean she was the fastest typer in our world, but not in the world of the temp agency. So she, something typed like 35 minutes and you needed 50 minutes, or 50, I’m sorry, 35 words a minute.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And she needed like 50 words a minute. And so I don’t even know what happened. Okay. But she came home. Okay. And she was mad. And she like threw the keys like very dramatic, and I was like, what is going on?, I’m 10 years old. I think one thing I also learned is I’m not gonna do that to my kids.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Like I’m not gonna let them see all my emotions cuz it’s a lot of responsibility for them. But whatever, this is my experience. But I remember talking to her and she was like hella, she was like, don’t ever depend on anybody. Like for your financial independence.
Dr. Hala Sabry: She didn’t say it like that, but that’s now how I understand it. And basically, she told me, please, you need to make sure that you’re completely willing or unable to finish school and have your own job before you even start a life with somebody else. And I was like, ten four, I understood the assignment and I came who I am today. Like I’ve totally exceeded her expectations. So for me, I think independence for women through money is a really important thing. My parents had an amazing marriage and they stayed married until both of them eventually passed away and things like that, over time.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So yeah, the story has a good ending, but everybody has a fight. But in that moment of weakness, the one thing that she wanted to teach me is don’t ever be in my position. I think every parent wants better for their kids. And so for me now, when I’m coaching these high earning women, I coach 1% earning women. So they all have stories like mine, like very similar. Oh, my mom said this. Or my dad ultimate feminist, wanted me to make sure that I was never dependent on anybody, or any entity, especially for a business owner or things like that.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so what do you do with that money? People just told us to make a lot of money and then we made a shitload of money, right? But then it’s now what? Right? And you’re on this like mission to check off all the boxes, and then you get there and you have all this money, and then you just find out that you’re not happy.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And all you’re doing is thinking about when can you stop? When can you stop getting off of this? Get off this hamster wheel. When can you stop generating this money? Which has become such a big part of your identity. And so I think that’s one thing I learned from my mom is the importance of independence for women.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And right now, especially understanding now a little bit more about the wage gap that exists in this country and the wealth gap that exists in the world. My thoughts are the more money that women have, the more equality and equity that we will have over time. And so for me, I think it’s really important not only to teach women how to make a lot of money, but how to have the capacity to have that money and how to actually live their life with that money.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I think the men need the same kind of lessons too. I’m not saying the men don’t. I just, I focus on the women, right? The second thing I learned from her was at the end of her life. And it was really about advocacy. And it was really about really, like no one’s gonna come and save you.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I remember, she was dying and I’m a doctor, right? And so she’s telling me, I was pregnant at the time and she was like I really want you not to die from the same disease. I don’t want you to have the same fate. And unfortunately, there were so many women in our family that had that same fate. And so she was like, I really want you to do a surgery to remove your breasts so that way you don’t get breast cancer, but after you’re done with being pregnant.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And, she really taught me that yeah, I know there’s all these recommendations and people are always gonna tell you what you should and you shouldn’t do, but ultimately you, you have to know what’s best for you. And I’m not telling everybody to go against doctor’s recommendations at all.
Dr. Hala Sabry: That’s not what I’m saying. But what I’m saying is, don’t depend on someone that’s more expert than you to really truly know what’s best for you. Take everything as a suggestion and opinion, but at the same time really advocate for yourself with within reason.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I ended up, going through that surgery a year ago and I think my mom, if I had to say something to her now, I think that she put a lot of, she was always like I think she was a little bit, I think self-conscious that she wasn’t the breadwinner of the family.
Dr. Hala Sabry: You know? So those of you that are listen, I have a lot of clients they’re 1% earning women, but they’re not the breadwinner. Which is insane, right? Their husbands just make a lot more money. Or maybe they are the breadwinner and they feel like they’re not one of my clients says it best.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I’m not the fun parent, right? She thinks like she’s the one that makes money, and then her husband is like the fun parent. But no matter what your dynamics are, just know your kids are watching you and your kids are listening, and whatever your internal dialogue is in your head, which I think my mom’s was a lot of like victimhood, like she’s a result of her circumstances. And she didn’t really have a lot of power, right? I think that was a lot. But that internal dialogue becomes what you say to other people, right? Whether they’re at work or they’re your kids, right? And so for me, learning that from my mom, and I love my mom dearly, and I think that we teach from the place of love and we teach from the place, from our mistakes, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so for me, I just wanted to make sure that my dialogue that was in my brain was what I exactly wanted curated for my kids to hear. And I wanted to change that generational shift. Especially I have four girls and I have a boy. I wanted to change how they heard me and I wanted to change how I care myself.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so that’s how I leverage my money. That’s what I did. I think investing in yourself is probably the most important first investment. I know you might have different portfolio for people, but I just think you become just such a different person when you invest in yourself, in your mindset.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I’ll say now, I remember having meetings with my financial planner before. And I lived in scarcity mode. I was like, wait, what’s the minimum I have to pay here because I’m not gonna have enough money to live. That’s the kind of, I know you’re laughing cause I’m pretty sure you have the same conversations, but now I’m like, wait, what’s the maximum?
Dr. Hala Sabry: I, like I could leverage that, I could do this, I could do that. I’m just so much more open to getting to my goals, my financial goals that I built from abundance, not from scarcity. And it’s just, it’s such an important shift for people.
Daniel Wrenne: Investing in yourself is interesting because I think in the career track of medicine, such a huge investment to invest in medical school and whether you’re taking out debt or paying in the moment, but either way it’s a huge investment, massive investment for medical school. And then you get finished with training or I guess residency and fellowship in itself is an investment cuz you’re being paid lower than what you would normally get and then get out into practice.
Daniel Wrenne: And it seems like a lot of families we work with and practice stop completely, stop really investing in themselves at that point. And it’s almost we’ll suggest, maybe consider hiring a coach or go talk to a counselor, a therapist, or hire plan or like that I’m investing in yourself in some ways.
Daniel Wrenne: You’re educating yourself. Yeah. In some new business coach or real estate course or those kinds of things. Oftentimes when we suggest those things, it’s not very well received.
Dr. Hala Sabry: No. It’s I don’t have time, I don’t have money.
Daniel Wrenne: And I find it as like a contradictory sort of disconnect there.
Daniel Wrenne: Yeah, but I don’t exactly understand why it’s happening.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So I mainly coach a lot of doctors just cuz that’s where my audience is. But I coach other people too. I coach lawyers and women in tech and engineers and things like that. All high earning women.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I’ll tell you that they all have very similar mindset and I’m pretty sure as your clients too. They’ve been on this path since they were like 18, sometimes earlier. And the system. Okay. Meaning medical school, society, whatever. Like they keep promising it’s gonna get better.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Like you will be able to enjoy yourself when fill in the blank. So for me it was like, just wait till you’re an attending your life is gonna be amazing. And again, I’m gonna tell you, if you take anything from this podcast, it is not going to be amazing then if you don’t make it amazing now.
Dr. Hala Sabry: it’s just gonna be more of what it is now. So when I was in medical school, I felt overwhelmed. I felt like, I was like trying to find free pizza all the time because I didn’t have money. And even though that wasn’t even true, I had money, but like everybody else around me was like, oh, it’s free pizza.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I was like, I must get the free pizza too, right? It was just like, it’s a who you surround yourself with. It’s that mindset, right? And so I was like really scrappy. I was very much of a hustler. And I like, literally lived on two speeds, like all in or stopped, that’s what I did, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And that got me to an amazing medical career, right? And then guess what? I graduated from residency. I was making big attending money and I work in a very well compensated specialty. I make, between $500,000 and $600,000 a year if I work full-time as an ER doctor in Southern California.
Dr. Hala Sabry: That’s what I made. And I was making double what I thought I was gonna be making, right? But guess what? I was still the hustler. I was still stop and go. I was still feeling like I didn’t have money. Nothing changed, right? Nothing. Nothing changed. And so I think that we wait for this arrival fallacy, I’m gonna get there, and then all of a sudden things are gonna get better and it doesn’t.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And then we’re frustrated and we’re pissed. We’re like, wait, who lied us? I sacrificed how many years of my life I sacrificed my twenties, right? I missed birthdays, I missed, weddings, I missed all these things, right? Maybe you messed up relationships because you dedicated your career to your career, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: All these things, right? And then you get there and you’re like, crap for what?
Dr. Hala Sabry: I wanna see return on my investment now. But what you don’t realize is that, money is just one. Your income is just one of the markers of return on investment. And so a lot of my clients, especially if they’re business owners, like if they’re like thinking of investing in something like real estate, they’re like, I’m looking at the return on investment.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I’m like, what do you think the return on investment is? And they will always give me a dollar amount. I think in five years I’ll make X amount of dollars. I’m like, what else? What else? And they just they don’t know how to think outside of that term. So I think it’s an important shift. I’m glad that you, I’m actually glad that you’ve reached out to me because, I actually, I’ve never, I’ve only been on one other financial podcast and it’s just a really interesting an amazing tool that you ask your clients to do because it really helps them really take that pressure off of money and use money as not the end all, but just one of the things that they can get a return on investment on.
Dr. Hala Sabry: But other kind of return on investment for people that are thinking about this are things like, what are the networking abilities, right? Who are you gonna be around? What’s the new communities that you’re gonna be engaged in? What are the new opportunities that will be created from what you do? Like for example, I just invested in a syndication. I had never did it before and I had a lot of reservations, oh my gosh. This is the first time I’m investing in something like real estate wise.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I don’t have control over it. I can’t just go sell a house, right? If I get scared for whatever reason, I get spooked, I can be like, okay, I’m gonna sell the house, right? I can’t. I can’t just pull that money out, right? It was a little bit scary. But the reason why I did it is I want to learn how to leverage more of my money and diversify it, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so I was like, it was not a huge amount of money, but I was like, I wanna learn this. Not only for me, but here’s all the other Return on investments, right? Okay, yeah, I might make money, but I’m gonna learn. I’m gonna go to all those quarterly meetings and I’m gonna learn, I’m gonna ask all the annoying questions because I don’t know.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I know how to be a doctor really. I don’t know how to be a real estate agent or a real estate investor. I don’t know how to do that. So I’m gonna go and I’m gonna ask questions. I’m gonna see who else is investing and I’m gonna find out, people who invest, they invest, right? So I wanna see what they’re doing.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I wanna be in that circle. I wanna be wealthier. If I wanna be wealthier, I need to surround myself with those kinds of people, right? And then I can leverage those opportunities. And then also, I have a coaching program called the 1% Women’s Club, which is going, is a large community. And what I’m gonna be doing from there is teaching them, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: So look at how much return on investment it’s gonna have. I’m gonna teach them. And you know what my goal is to have a fully female invested fund. That would be so fun, right? It’s for a group of women to own a 30 million property, that’d be amazing, right? If it’s all women. So for me, that’s what I’m thinking, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: So I may have put in, I dunno, 10, 20, $30,000, right? But look at all the return investment I’m getting, right? I’m getting education. Look at what I’m gonna become afterwards, right? I’m gonna become a person who is more connected in that community, has more networking ability, has more education, can leverage that to help other women make money.
Dr. Hala Sabry: That’s the return on investment. That makes that money that I initially invested look like pennies. Looks like peanuts. So I think it’s just really focusing on who I’m gonna become after, not who I am now. So I hope that you guys will like, do those exercises, especially if you’re really stressed out about money.
Daniel Wrenne: I’m completely on the same page cuz we have the same conversations over and it’s typically about performance. Percentage rate of return or dollars. And there’s so many other factors like you’re saying, like relationships and community and impact and diversification and also the learning thing.
Daniel Wrenne: And that’s great too is cuz if you can get your hands dirty and be involved, that’s can potentially be a good thing. But it could also be a bad thing if you don’t want to go that direction. And I think the biggest thing you said at the very end in wrapping that up, which I think is super important, is like, it’s all about is this thing pushing you towards becoming the person you want to become, as opposed to just staying complacent. And I think most investments don’t really move the needle much. They just give you more money, which more money in itself does really nothing in itself, it gives you opportunities to do something, but you ultimately have to do something with it.
Daniel Wrenne: And a lot of people are just building wealth just to build wealth. And I think that’s a problem, a challenge, an issue in itself. So you’ve taken this to the next level relatively early in life? I think a lot of people, unfortunately, it takes a really long time. I think everybody, a lot of people realize it like late in their life.
Daniel Wrenne: Even some people realize it, like on their deathbed. They’re like, oh, you…
Dr. Hala Sabry: Yes.
Daniel Wrenne: …respectively have a week to live. And you’re like, oh, crap, I didn’t become the person I wanted to become. And that’s like devastating and full of regret, and nobody wants to end up at that point. But like, how do you shift that? That’s a important shift, I think, but it takes a lot of work. And you’ve already mentioned like investing in yourself. I agree. That’s a huge one. How do you start to do that? What does it look like? I’m curious how people can start to make that transition.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Yeah. It’s funny that you bring that up about living like you’re dying. And that’s exactly how I, it started, you have to remember, like my mom, I remember looking for more fulfillment. I wasn’t burnt out. Like I think in medicine, we use burnout terms so much that if you’re mildly unhappy, they’re like, “Oh, you’re burnt out.”, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: But I wasn’t burnt out. I wanted to do more, I wanted to have more impact. I wanted to create businesses and I wanted to do all these things, right? I just knew I could only leverage my medical career, my traditional clinical career so much, right? So I still practiced medicine, but I just knew at one point I was sitting in the ER, it was nine o’clock in the morning.
Dr. Hala Sabry: This section of the ER was about to open up and I had my coffee. This is before Covid you guys. And so you could eat and drink, you could do all these things, right? And so like I was sitting there and I had my coffee and I was looking around at this like clean empty ER. And I remember thinking to myself, I love my fricking job, but is this all I’m gonna do for the rest of my life?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Is go around in a circle and see 20 patients plus a day. Is that all I’m going to do? Not that that’s not impactful. Not that I don’t love that cause I do. But I’m ready. I think I was so freaking confused that I was ready to continue to evolve and grow because I was at defying all the rules.
Dr. Hala Sabry: You’re supposed to be a doctor and then you’re supposed to be a doctor forever until you die. So like, why was I thinking about growing my career? We don’t really see that. And then if I do that, am I a sellout? Am I really a doctor? Like all of these things, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so I remember hiring a therapist and I love therapy. I think therapy is an amazing tool. I have a therapist that I see every single week. Actually. I see her on Thursdays. I hear today. And I think therapy is amazing and therapy is different than coaching. But my therapist at the time and she was great, but she was like not saying what I’m about to say, but this is how I took it at the time.
Dr. Hala Sabry: You’re making up problems for yourself. Cause I remember thinking like, I’m happy I have everything I want. I’m going on vacations, I have the house, I have the cars, I’m doing all the things right. But I’m not fulfilled. And she was like, what’s gonna make you fulfilled? I’m like, I don’t know.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And that’s a difference between therapy and coaching. And some therapists are like, they do coaching like they do, but I just haven’t found one. But I know that they exist out there. But therapists is like driving in a car and you’re using all of your ways of looking outside the car.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So you, you’re using your rear view mirror, your side mirrors to look behind you. And I feel like that’s exactly what therapy does. Is there anything that’s in your past that could affect your future moving forward? Or affect you now and where you’re at. And then I think what coaching is, it’s like looking through the windshield, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Looking forward at the road. And also your GPS right? Where are you going and how are you going to get there? And that’s exactly what coaching is. Right? And I didn’t know that. I didn’t know what coaching was exactly. I just knew I wasn’t happy and I wasn’t fulfilled. That’s all I could say. I was like, gosh, is this all it’s gonna be for my whole life?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And just really questioning and especially around a time that I was ready to grow. And my mom, she had recurrence of her cancer. My mom had cancer for about like just about 20 years, like on and off. Like she was, no, not 20. Oh my God. 12 years. 12 years. And my dad died a couple weeks before I started medical school.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I think with that reality, that longevity isn’t something in our family, at least in my immediate family. So it’s if I’m already not feeling fulfilled and I’m asking my questions, is this what I’m gonna do for my whole life? And how long will my life be because my mom is dying.
Dr. Hala Sabry: My dad died at 52, right? What do I wanna do? And again, in the ER I get a lot of that. I get a lot of what you said of patients coming in and I’m diagnosing late stage cancer, or they’re on hospice and they’re coming in and they’re like, I can’t do this anymore. Or I know they’re not gonna leave the hospital.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I always ask them like, what do you wanna do? And a lot of times they’re like, I don’t know. I’ve spent so much time waiting for retirement to enjoy my life. Especially if they’re younger. And I just start realizing I don’t wanna wait to enjoy my life.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I wanna enjoy my life now. So I think that was the biggest shift and I didn’t know what to do. And I actually got introduced to coaching from one of the executives at Facebook. I had done some work with them and I remember he asked me how I was doing and I was like, gosh, I just feel overwhelmed.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I feel like, whatever I’m gonna do the next day is gonna implode, like my projects and this and that. And he is yeah, sounds right. And he is like, you should hire a coach. And I was like, what the f as a coach. And I didn’t wanna say that to him cause I already felt like a fraud, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so I’m not gonna go tell him like, I don’t even know what that is. And so I ruminated on that for two years, right? And so here I am, executive tells me I should hire a coach, right? I’m thinking that it’s a bad thing, right? But I don’t realize that over 40% of executives have coaches.
Dr. Hala Sabry: That’s why they’re so freaking successful, right? So they’re playing on a whole different level of playing field with a different tool. Set that toolkit than I’m playing with. And so I’m like, so I look into coaches, I’m like, damn, it’s expensive. Yeah. Like I, why would I pay for that?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Like what’s my return on investment? . And it’s interesting because it’s not like I was coaching for weight loss. I’m not saying that that’s a worthy reason to coach. But I think with weight loss or money coaching or business coaching, there’s like some metrics that you can get behind that are tangible, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Like, you can lose 10% of your weight, you can make 10% more money, you can scale your business 10%, right? And so I think that’s how we hear it, right? But I was like, I just wanna feel fulfilled and I don’t know even what that looks like, and I don’t know how 10% of fulfillment looks like or whatever it may be, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And the reason why coaching is expensive is one is accessing that person’s brain. It’s a lot of money. Just accessing my brain as a doctor that costs a lot of money. That’s a lot of work that I put into it and a lot of work that I’m putting into my patients, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: So one is it’s appreciation for the craft of the coach, but also you know what? If you don’t have skin in the game, you are not gonna make the changes, because if you were going to make the changes, a podcast would cure you. I’m not saying that this podcast won’t cure you, but a podcast will start that process of thinking, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: But implementing in your life is where the hard thing is. But if you just needed to hear what you needed to do, then a podcast or a book would be all that you need, right? How many books have you read? How many podcasts have you read? And what are you thinking about? What is the problem that you’re trying to solve, and why haven’t you solved it yet?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Because we’re so busy consuming and less doing, we’re less implementing. And so a coach really pushes you into the implementing phase. I have so many clients that come in Hola, I just want you to teach me this. I know that’s what they want me to do so their brain doesn’t have to do the work.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So I like actually kind shift that over. Of course, they want me to tell ’em what to do, right? Yeah. But I’m gonna shift it into more of a coaching mentality. So for me, when I was hiring a coach, I was like, gosh, like this is expensive. But yeah, you know what though? Because it was expensive, I showed up.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Not only physically, but mentally. And I was like, sh I need to get my money’s worth of this because I’ve never spent, I think my first investment was like $5,000, I think. $5,000 for three months. Yeah. For a coach. And they range you guys, for people who don’t know how much coaching costs, you could find a coach for especially somebody who’s really early in their career and depending on what they coach on, they can coach for a couple hundred dollars for a couple months.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I know somebody who coaches for $27,000 for three months. So I mean, and what Tony Robbins, he charges like a million dollars for a year for a certain couple of minutes. So it ranges. It totally ranges. But I think for me, I charge, I paid $5,000 and I just remember thinking like, this is the most irresponsible thing.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I’m so selfish. I feel so guilty. Like my kids, they could be using that money. But you know what? My kids have such a more emotionally available mom right now. And she’s teaching them lessons that she wants to, she’s becoming the person that I hope that they surpass. It’s just such an evolution of thought.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I was telling you earlier before we even started recording you were making comment about how early it is here, and I start my day at 4:45 in the morning, because my kids, they wake up at seven, they have to get to school by 9, and then I’m off by 4. And then they get home at 4:26 or something like that.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so I built my life and I also work in the hospital a couple days a month, but they usually think I’m like on a work trip or something like that. And the other day, my son was in the car and he was asking me a question. My son’s obsessed with zombies. And so he asked me, he is like, mom, can we bring people back from the dead?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And initially I was gonna be like, no, cause I know where he’s gonna go with it, with zombies. But I was like, wait, actually, yeah. That’s what I do for my life, right? ~ ~That’s what I do for a living, right? I bring people back, I do CPR all day long, right? It’s what I do. That’s it depends when we start talking about brain death and CPR in 15 minutes and all this other stuff, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I’m pretty sure I’m gonna get a call from the school. But he was like, mom, how do you know all this? I’m like, Ramsey, that’s my job. He’s ~like, ~like, “What?”? He’s like, “Mom, you work?” I’m like, it’s just so interesting, right? I’m like, yeah. He’s I knew you were a doctor, but I didn’t know you really were.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I’m like, yeah, where do you think I go? He’s just thought you’d go on a business trip. I’m like, yeah, because ~ ~I don’t work close to my house. I work in a lower socioeconomic area. Like I go and I travel because for me, I realized I wanted to work and have the most impact at work too.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so I wanted to work with people that don’t have access to doctors regularly. That was really important to me. So now, I do locums to have a little bit more flexibility and also to feel like I’m expressing my values through every part of my service. And so it’s really fun.
Daniel Wrenne: I think that’s, you mentioned about coaching and the cost barrier to it.
Daniel Wrenne: But I think if you look at what you’re describing, the question to ask is what’s the value of living a more fulfilling life and becoming more of the person you want to become or be in more in alignment with your values or however you want to describe it. What’s the value of that?
Daniel Wrenne: And there, you can’t really put a dollar amount on it, but I would say it’s super valuable, priceless thing. Yeah. And it reduces the chances you’re gonna be later in your life and having regrets and you know that, I think everybody can get behind that. And that’s what good coaching is designed to do, is to help you get more in touch with that. And ask some of the hard questions. Because we’re not naturally, most people don’t sit around saying what am I gonna do with your life?
Daniel Wrenne: You were asking yourself, is this all..
Dr. Hala Sabry: But we’re all asking ourselves that? We’re all asking, it just looks different. It’s oh, I need to get off this hamster wheel, or I feel like a cog in the wheel. Like all those questions you ask yourself, it’s exactly what you’re asking yourself.
Daniel Wrenne: It’s right.
Dr. Hala Sabry: What is my purpose and what is my impact?
Daniel Wrenne: But usually we shut it down, there’s symptoms of it. They pop up here and there and it’s there’s these hints of like dissatisfaction and, but then we’re like, “No, that’s not how I be, I’m supposed to behave or whatever, and we shut it down and we don’t go any further.”
Daniel Wrenne: But that’s the prime time when you keep digging and you did. And it sounds like a coach helped. And I think that’s what a coach can really do, right? Is they help you peel back all those layers. Same with therapy too. That’s a different flavor of it. And looking more in the past.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I think they both work really well together. So I don’t think it’s an either. I would say the question I would ask you or anybody else that’s listening, if you’re debating hiring a coach and having all the drama I did is, do you know how much more money you’re gonna lose? Do you know how much more money you’re not going to make with, without investing this money?
Dr. Hala Sabry: That’s exactly what I wish I would’ve told myself. You cannot afford not to invest in this. Because you know what would’ve happened if I didn’t invest in that? I would’ve been burnt out. I would’ve probably ended my career a little bit later. A little, yeah, a little bit earlier.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I’m sorry. I would’ve probably made less money because I would’ve been like taking like ultimate breaks, which I was doing before. I wouldn’t have invested anything because I would’ve been too cheap. All of these things, right? And my parents and my kids would have the same parent that my dad was from me.
Dr. Hala Sabry: This burnt out doctor, who was amazing. I loved him. But man, he complained about work all the time. Right? Like I could not afford to do that anymore. So I would beg to say, you are losing more money by not investing in yourself. You truly are. And so I just, I can’t stress this enough, but I know it, it’s a big change in the way that we spend money, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Especially, I don’t know any parents that have life coaches. So it wasn’t something that was probably taught to you as a norm nor a norm. But it’s really important and just know, if 40% plus people in this world that are rich and wealthy have coaches, like there’s some correlation, a well-managed mind is more productive in all ways, including money.
Dr. Hala Sabry: That’s what it is. And and I think it’s like really super important, to do that.
Daniel Wrenne: For a physician, it’s not that, I mean, it’s difficult to become wealthy, but it’s not that hard to become rich. I kind of like to call them differently. It’s like rich and wealthy. So you’re right, rich is you got a big investment account or something and that’s not, I could say, here’s five books to read and it’s gonna tell you exactly how to do it and buy index funds.
Daniel Wrenne: Don’t spend much money. Save as much as you can buy index funds. You have a higher earning career and work a lot and you know you’re gonna be really rich. Yeah. And just do it.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I was really rich,
Daniel Wrenne: But that’s why..
Dr. Hala Sabry: And unhappy.
Daniel Wrenne: Fulfilling and yeah. No, then it’s …
Dr. Hala Sabry: …and miserable.
Daniel Wrenne: Of this money?
Daniel Wrenne: And so wealthy is, I would define it a little differently. It’s more of fulfilling and you don’t have to have necessarily have big investment accounts to be wealthy. You could be giving all your money away, for example, or not having much at all or changing professions or starting businesses and and that’s, your life is a good example of, you’ve got a million different things going on and it’s, but what you keep saying that is so important, I think to take away is that you have good alignment with what’s most important in the decisions you’re making. Like your compass is on target with the things you..
Dr. Hala Sabry: Yeah. My value system. That’s where I started, you guys. So I read 20 books on Amazon, literally 20 books on values. Okay. And ‘cuz again, I was too cheap to hire a coach, didn’t really understand the investment, didn’t even understand what the hell it was. So I bought all these books on legacy and all of these other things.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I started realizing like, Oh, like I need to live a values-based life. Like, how the hell do I do that? So actually on my website, I teach people how to do it for free because that’s where I started and I was like, so if I can save you guys, obviously if you’d love to redo it, but if I could save you guys the money of 20 books and the time of reading 20 books, just you could just download this, I think it’s 14 pages off my website.
Dr. Hala Sabry: It’s free. halasabry.com and it’s a values, it’s a values sheet. And I just made it into an easy way to pick your values. I don’t want you guys to feel like you have to perfect your values. Your values will change and grow over time, just like your wardrobe or your legs and interest, it will change.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So I do this values assessment on myself once a year. I have clients that do it, a lot more frequently. And I sit there and I think, right? So like for example, my values are innovation, knowledge, love, and inspiration. That’s what leads me to do everything I want. Okay. Every single thing.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I had to define what that really means. For example, innovation. I love innovation. I love creating new things. That’s why I went into consulting, right? And that’s why I created Physician Mom’s group, which is the largest women’s support group that exists in the world for physicians.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I just love creating new things. So then I had to start thinking of myself, of Okay, how do I show up in with innovation in all aspects of my life? Career is just one of them. Right? There’s six aspects of our life. There’s career, there’s money, there’s our romantic relationships, there’s our other relationships with friends, family in the community.
Dr. Hala Sabry: There’s health and there’s spirituality. Those are the six ways that we are expressing our values. So I had to sit down and go okay, how does innovation look like with my health? How does innovation look like in my relationships? I really had to ask myself, because when you’re unhappy or not feeling balanced, this whole balance is bs.
Dr. Hala Sabry: But, there’s no such thing. There’s not even such thing in medicine. There’s a homeostasis and there’s a range, right? Nothing’s balanced. But this whole balance that we’re seeking is really how do we express our values equally in all parts of our life. Right? And I didn’t know that, and that was like a very big revelation for me after reading all these books and interpreting my own stuff with it.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So that’s what I made this whole sheet for you guys to do for free. It’s part of an eight chapter workbook that my clients get, but it’s the first chapter that you guys get for free. But for me, like literally when I’m making a decision, like even the hospital, like I was just sharing with you guys, the hospital I chose to work at.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I sat there and I was like, how does this align with me practicing my values? I have hospitals that are right down the street from me and I’m choosing not to work there. Why? Yeah.
Dr. Hala Sabry: The old Hala years ago, ~right. ~would choose whatever hospital paid the most money. Yep. The second version of Hola would choose whatever hospital paid okay, but it was the easiest to work at. Had a lot of resources. Maybe it was not less as busy. This version of Hola, version three is where can I express my values? right? Without sacrificing the money I’m making in the time I’m spending. It’s an evolution.
Dr. Hala Sabry: It’s not an either or, right? And so I teach my clients how to do that because right now they’re working on a value system. That one is probably not even their value system, it’s a value system that their parents gave them. And it’s from a decision that they made when they’re 18. They never evolved their brains outside of their craft.
Dr. Hala Sabry: For the most part, we lived in a vacuum. So I think it’s really important to understand your value system. So yeah, I think everything I do, I remember I was doing consulting for a really large company and I was consulting for them for a year, and then they offered me a full-time job.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And five years ago, or six years ago, that would’ve been my dream job. So when they finally offered it to me and I was like, holy crap, I made it. This is so crazy. But when I started looking at my value system, there was no innovation in the role. There was no, there was basically, it was gonna be a transactional role, just like it is in medicine.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I was like, wait, I know how this ends. And I turned it down. All that money. All that prestige. All of that old dream that I had from five years ago from the previous Hola’s mindset. I turned it down with no regrets.
Daniel Wrenne: Yep. I think that’s a better, that what you’re saying no to is such a good measure of how you’re doing on this thing.
Daniel Wrenne: Because if you’re just saying yes to everything that’s one thing, but..
Dr. Hala Sabry: Yeah, I did the whole year of Yes. And I had did the year of No. And all I learned is like doing things just to say that you’re doing them as bs. Like do ’em because you actually believe in it. So there’s times I say yes, for example, saying yes to this podcast.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I went through the same thing. Okay, is this gonna be mutual beneficial for both of us? What are we gonna learn together? And what is my value system? How am I gonna express my values on this call? And there was a podcast, literally yesterday that I turned down because I just didn’t see that alignment, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Not because of they have a great platform. I just, I didn’t really see how that was really gonna benefit both of us, right? And so yeah, so I just, I think it’s a decision. I and now I do it so often that I do it so fast, right? I have to slow down, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And like understand. And one of the things I teach in one of our, my values workshops for my clients is how to tell when you’re out of alignment. And usually you’ll have a dominant feeling or a dominant thought that happens. So now I know. So when I, okay, this is like my thing, right? When I am scared or having fear, and usually it’s linked to losing money.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Okay. Like usually it’s linked to some kind of money scarcity. Okay. I know I just need to go back and check my values. Because one of two things is happening. One is I’m completely out of alignment with my values. Or I am but I just haven’t used it in that way and I’m a little scared.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I think that it’s really important to take that time and if you want me to give you an example, I can, especially about money because it’s the money podcast, but, okay, so yes, we have more than enough money. Okay. Like I’m happy with how wealthy we are. I’m very happy.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I love spending money on experiences. I feel like our life is too short. I love to learn by experiences especially traveling. My goal, I would love when my kids are starting to learn about other countries and this and that. I like, I wanna freaking go there. , I want them to experience it real life, not just see it in a book.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Okay. That’s what I want. And we go, we travel a lot. I’ve taken my kids to many places and my dad’s bucket list dream vacation is an African Safari or was an African Safari. And my dad, he spent a lot of money on experiences. Like we traveled a lot. And I remember my dad saying that he really wanted to do an African Safari.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So I was like, oh, why don’t we do it? And he is it’s expensive. And I was like, Whoa, I’ve never seen my dad use that word. And I was like, what do you mean expensive? How much is it? I don’t know. And I didn’t ask him. I just ~ ~thought in my brain. So anyways, a couple years later, I was watching Will of Fortune and they were giving away African Safari.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So I was like waiting to the end for them to say how much it was, and it was like $17,000. Okay. And I was like, holy shit, $17,000 is a lot of money, right? So that’s what I learned is that $17,000 is too much to spend on a vacation. Okay. That is what the lesson I learned. But I didn’t know that.
Dr. Hala Sabry: You know what’s so funny is that none of my vacations have ever cost more than $17,000. It’s $15,000, $16,000. But it’s never mark gone over that mark. Not intentionally. It’s like this thermostat in my brain. Yeah. Not intentionally. So anyways, I start realizing this, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And one of the things I was doing a future self exercise a couple years ago and I was like, my future self goes on this African safari to complete my dad’s Bucket list checklist. And I don’t even know how much it is. I still think it’s $17,000 from Will of Fortune.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So I was like, let me look into it, right? So anyways, it’s not $17,000, it’s much more, okay. It’s much more. Okay, so I look into it and I end up booking it. Okay. So we’re going actually next August. So I booked this three years ago. Okay. So I booked it for next August, and it is by far the most expensive vacation I’ve taken, and I have no drama about it.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I think like for my whole family, after all is said and done, it’ll probably cost between $70 and $80,000. I think because we’re going to Egypt and like we’re staying at this place called Giraffe Manor. If you guys have not heard about that place, look it up. It’s in insane.
Daniel Wrenne: What’s it called?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Giraffe Manor. See for yourself.
Daniel Wrenne: My wife’s really into giraffe.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Oh yeah. Yeah. I’m sorry in advance because you’re gonna have to go there. But, but yeah, you have to book, many years in advance, so it’s gonna be expensive and we’re going with the two other families. So fun. It’s gonna be awesome.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I have no drama about this money. Okay. At all. Okay. So a year ago, or maybe not a year ago, no, like six months ago, my God feels a long time ago, we went on a cruise and one of the ports had like a water park. I have no value for water parks. Okay. I grew up next to a water park where I used to go all the time.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And it was gonna be a thousand dollars for our family, like the $1,200 for our family of seven to go and have a cabana and whatever. You would act like you would think I was like having like a breakdown, right? Like I was looking at the laptop that was in bed, right? And I looked over at my husband, I was like, oh my gosh, like it’s $1,200 to go to this water park.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And in my brain I was scared and I literally, what I was doing in that moment, I was like, oh, shoot, do we have enough money? Am I gonna be able to pay my mortgage? Oh my God, my house is gonna have to go back to the bank. Okay. This is exactly where my brain goes when I’m in money scarcity, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: This is exactly where my brain goes when I’m not in the alignment or I’m not sure if I’m in alignment with my values. Okay? So I don’t have a value system. I don’t think that there’s any knowledge that I’m gonna learn at the water park. Okay? I’m not gonna be inspired by the waterpark. I don’t think it’s innovative because man, there’s waterparks everywhere.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I don’t think it’s a new way of expressing my values through innovation on waterparks, whatever. But what I was forgetting is it’s love. Like my kids have not experienced that. Yeah. Right? I forgot, yes, I’ve experienced that. My kids haven’t. So I had to really understand, okay, what’s innovative about this?
Dr. Hala Sabry: My kids have never done this. They’ve never gone on a waterpark on an island. I had to go through that and really remember actually whatever it may be. But anyways, when I told my husband about it, right? My husband’s like, wow, it’s interesting. Like I hope you keep up that same energy with Kenya because he knows how much that’s costing, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: He just doesn’t really understand why I would have drama about a thousand dollars and not 70. And but it’s true. It’s true though. It’s so funny how our brains work. It’s not about the numbers, it’s not about the money, it’s about our thoughts about the money.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Right? So we ended up going, and my kids still think that’s the best part of the entire cruise. Is that they gotta go on all these like slides. They still talk about it. They still ask to go back. And you know what, I have to remember, it’s not just my value system that’s working in a vacuum, my kids. No, it’s their experiences as well and so yeah.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So that’s just an example. I laugh about it now, but I help clients with examples. So many examples, that’s what I do. And it’s just so fun.
Daniel Wrenne: Stories and examples are super helpful. I think what really we’re all striving for is greater awareness of what’s going on.
Daniel Wrenne: And that’s where the problems happen is when we’re just, cuz everybody has their autopilot usually based on their childhood behaviors and thoughts and all that.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And yeah, it’s learned.
Daniel Wrenne: But you can get, you can develop greater awareness and I think that’s why therapy and coaching can be so valuable for people is that’s gonna accelerate that gaining awareness aspect.
Daniel Wrenne: And I think that those are great starting points. So as we wrap up, we’re right at that new year phase, and I really wanted to ask you how do we not get in that position of the person that sets the New Year’s resolution and it’s a month in and we’ve dropped the ball and what do we do? What are maybe a couple quick thoughts or tips that people can really take away and give themselves a much better chance at changing their trajectory in the new year that’s about to come.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Yeah. So I’m only gonna give you one step because I think this is the most important.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I don’t know if I really believe in New Year’s resolutions anymore, but I do believe in goal setting. But whatever it is that, whatever you wanna call it, new year’s resolutions, goal setting, whatever you’re putting down on that piece of paper, or you’re promising yourself as the ball’s dropping or the new year, whatever it may be, whatever it is that you have, your mindset too.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I want you to stop and think about why. Really, why have you decided that? Why have you decided to address that issue? Why are you doing that? What do you think is gonna happen? What kind of results are you gonna have? What? What do you think that’s gonna offer you? What do you think your life is gonna be like?
Dr. Hala Sabry: I really want you to ask yourself that because making decisions are really easy. People think making decisions are hard, okay? They’re not. It’s managing the objections that come up, that is the hard part. And so for example, like a lot of people do weight loss schools, okay?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Right? Oh, I’m gonna finally lose that 20 pounds. And the other thing I would say too is when you’re making a goal or New Year’s resolution, how many times have you made that same goal of resolution? And why didn’t it work before? Not from a place of it’s not gonna work in the future, but just really be honest with you, with yourself.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Why it’s not gonna work before, was the goal too lofty? Were you approaching it in a way that wasn’t really conducive with your lifestyle, things like that. So let’s just take weight loss as an example. Because I literally, this is my life. This is how I used to live New Year’s resolution, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: I’d be like, okay, new year, new me. I am not going to be this way by December 31st. I am not going to do that. I’m not gonna do it. I’m gonna be so good this year. And then I would go into this restrictive mindset and everybody does this, right? They go to the gym. The gym is so full, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Until about Valentine’s Day, right? And then. It’s a desert. And I think like you can’t get to your goal from, you can’t get to goal, to your goal from motivation. Like a lot of people are like, I just need to get motivated. I just need to be motivated. Yeah. Yeah. I wanna let you guys know that motivation is a very intermittent feeling, okay?
Dr. Hala Sabry: It is very brief and it’s very intermittent. And motivation’s not gonna get you anywhere, okay? It is your thoughts and those thoughts that you say over and over again, they become beliefs. And your beliefs actually get you to where you want, right? If you are not taking actions to get your results, it’s because you just don’t have enough belief in your actions.
Dr. Hala Sabry: You really don’t, right? So just like investments, right? If you really think that losing 20 pounds is going to be better for you, right? What do you think is gonna happen at 20 pounds? I just really wanna know what do you think is gonna happen? You’re gonna love yourself more. You’re gonna think you’re beautiful.
Daniel Wrenne: It’s the same as what is it? It’s a more money goal.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Yeah. Are you gonna be happier? You’re not gonna worry about money anymore because you have more money? I don’t know. I know a lot of really rich people that worry about money all day long. Like they’re ~ ~they’re watching the top, the stock market and they’re like obsessed, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: So yeah. You’re not like, you’re not gonna change unless you change your thought. And I literally just went through this with weight loss. I’ve lost 30 pounds in the last three and a half or four months, four months. And it all became from changing my thought.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Like I realized that I didn’t like myself. I have severe body image issues. I like to the point where I didn’t wanna start my coaching business because I thought I had to put a picture of myself on a website. And oh my God, that’s drama. Even though I put pictures on myself all over social media all the time, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: It was different. I would be more exposed in a different way that I’m not comfortable. And look how many things I didn’t do. Like I could have started this coaching business like way earlier. I could have started, I could have started my journey in coaching way earlier. I just didn’t think I was worth it.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so I started realizing like, okay, why do I wanna lose weight? What does that really mean for me? And for me I had to learn about my body image issues. I had to learn to love myself now before I lost the weight. Cause I’m not gonna love myself when I lose the weight and things like that.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So just asking myself why. What do I think I’m gonna become after and why can’t I be that person now? And then become that. That physical version of myself, right? And so I started doing that process and I started realizing actually really what I wanted is I really wanted the health benefits.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I believe in healthy at every size and I didn’t have any medical problems with the previous weight I was at all. But I do have this history of cancer in my family. And when I looked at the actual science and like the estrogen that’s in fat cells, I didn’t want, I did this crazy surgery to decrease my chance of breast cancer and then I had all this fat on my body that had estrogen in it.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Like that could increase my chance for breast, for other cancers as well. And for me, my why became a little bit more important. And through that, and even just learning how to love myself and be like, I’m not ugly, I’m not fat, I’m not unhealthy. Like those are the things I was telling myself. And that’s why I wasn’t losing the weight.
Dr. Hala Sabry: When you’re sitting there, like beating yourself up while you’re at the gym, telling yourself you’re unhealthy and you’re fat and blah, blah, blah, even though you’re not consciously thinking that, you are thinking that.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so if you’re not gonna be nice to yourself, why would you continue doing that?
Dr. Hala Sabry: So instead, I fixed, I cleaned that all up over the last three years. I cleaned all that up, actually hired a body image coach, right? Cleaned all that crap up. And I started changing my life back then. And then three years later, I decide to lose weight for the right reasons. That was in August.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I decided, and it’s December now, and I’m 30 pounds down. But it’s not from a place of motivation or all of a sudden I found a trick. Right? It was three years. It took me three years to lose 30 pounds. Not, not just three months. It took me three years, right? Because I had to change my thoughts first.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So anyways, all of that to say, if you’re gonna go into a New Year’s resolution,~ I,~ I don’t want it to take three years for you, . I don’t want it to take a long time. But I want you to like really understand why you put that on your list and why is it continuously on your list? Cause I’m pretty sure it’s not the first time you thought about that goal, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: So if you really wanna have that goal on your goal for good. And actually get over it, really, examine your thought work, hire a coach. If you wanna read coaching books or whatever it may be, do that. But really examine your thoughts on it. Yeah, that’s great.
Dr. Hala Sabry: A really good coaching book. Coaching book I started off with was You Are a Badass by Jen Sincero. That’s a really good entry level book if you are interested in just understanding what thought work is before hiring the coach. But I would just dive in. I would just hire someone. And do all the reading and listen to the podcast, do all the things.
Daniel Wrenne: Yeah. Yeah. Just soaking it all up different. Everybody’s different. Yeah. But yeah, I love peeling back the layers. That’s huge. We tend to just set these New Year’s resolutions and just wheel all the way through it.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Oh yeah. It feels good.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Oh yeah. It’s, oh my God, every year for me, I used to do that. Not anymore. But yeah, now if I have a goal, I definitely go through the whole, why am I doing this? Really why, right?
Dr. Hala Sabry: And is it, how is this gonna be helping me express my values? Who am I gonna become after? How is that gonna leverage things? How’s that gonna play into all of my strategy of life? Right? Why am I gonna be doing this? And then if it’s something I’m committed to, then I start looking at my goals. Is it an appropriate set goal? Am I so scared of the goal that I’m not gonna approach it?
Dr. Hala Sabry: Or is it too low where I think it’s too easy and so my mind doesn’t wanna work for it, right? So it’s really, there’s a whole strategy of it, and that’s why hiring coach is really helpful to keep you on track with your goals. And then sometimes you get distracted, like you’re like, Oh, I know I had this goal, but I’m gonna go over here and I’m gonna do this instead.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And so coaches really it’s almost like that GPS in the car that’s you missed your turn. It’s like, make a right and then she gets louder. Make a right (U-turn). Now you have to make a U-turn. I know, right? She starts getting mad at you, right? And I don’t get mad at my clients, but I think it’s just a constant reminder.
Daniel Wrenne: Unless they ask you to.
Daniel Wrenne: I know.
Dr. Hala Sabry: No, my client’s not. Even if they wanted me to, I’m gonna be the nice voice. I think we’re already mean to each other and to ourselves. I know. Our brain. But yeah. But I always remind him, I have one client, she wanted to build wealth because she was actually dying.
Dr. Hala Sabry: She had cancer. She’s in remission now. She’s fine. But when she hired me, she didn’t know what was gonna happen on her next scan. And so she really wanted to build her wealth to give to her child. And I was like, okay, fine. We started talking about it. She has a medical practice.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Anyways, she had all of this opportunity to scale different parts of her business. And within four months, we figured out how to scale her business to over a million. So starting January 15th, she has a contract that is gonna put her over the seven figure mark on just one part of her business, of her medical practice.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And she’s a pediatrician, you guys. So all the people who sit there and say, oh, I’m a pediatrician. I don’t make enough money. Not true. Okay. It’s not true. These are thoughts that you decided to have. And then you’re around all the other pediatricians who’s there saying that they don’t make it a lot of money.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So you, it, it’s same with being in medical school and thinking that you had to eat pizza because you didn’t have money, right? It’s just, if that’s who you’re surrounding yourself with and that’s what you want to think, then you will definitely think that. Anyways, she leveraged to over seven figures.
Dr. Hala Sabry: And I remember asking her on her first session with me, cause I did this whole like, assessment and I was asking her about romance, right? Cause that’s what, one of the ways that we express our values. I was like, Oh, so tell me about romance. She’s like, no. She’s like, I’ve been divorced for so many years and I don’t have time for that.
Dr. Hala Sabry: I’m not gonna spend the rest of my life trying to figure out a relationship. No way. Blah, blah, blah. Anyways, . She just got married last week.
Daniel Wrenne: Yeah. It’s awesome.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Isn’t that insane? So awesome. And so there’s just money is not everything. Live and enjoy your life now. You work too hard for your success to not enjoy it now.
Dr. Hala Sabry: So that’s what I’m gonna leave you with.
Daniel Wrenne: Yeah. This has been awesome. I feel like we could talk for hours. There’s a lots to. I have a lot of notes too. I’m like Oh, a lot of different directions. We can take this. But I appreciate you coming on to chat with me. This is, yeah, it’s been fun.
Dr. Hala Sabry: Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me.
Daniel Wrenne: And always good talking with you.
Daniel Wrenne: Nice talking to you.